But anyway, would this be a bad thing to do, for me saying that he won't contribute seems weird, and having to show his income, I mean nothing is adding up, I don't get it.  Btw, he is not signed onto my loan.

 

Maybe it has been this way all along?  You have to tell them he won't pay first?  I'm hoping this will work out.  I'll let you know how it goes.  Oh, and your welcome.  This is an awesome site, I've read it so much, no where else are things spelled out, things people have experienced, I'm grateful. 

The danger here is that people may feel forced to withhold information. If caught the government is pretty nasty about it.  So, borrowers are damned if they do - damned if they don't.   

So I don't know what to do.  But I think maybe the letter might work if your family doesn't make too much, and you have dependents.  It could be worth a try for others.  

So you are saying that if he withholds the information the government will be nasty about it?  I don't know what that means, if he doesn't owe it.  I was reading elsewhere on the forum where others are not divulging the spouses information, and that is ok.  They don't have to give it. 

Unless your debt is huge, I am a little bit surprised that you can't come up with enough to make normal payment.  Why aren't you working even in a limited capacity?  Even a minimum wage job working 20 hours a week would make a normal payment ( unless your debt is huge).  Presumably he is covering your living expenses.  Why can't you work enough to pay off your debt?

Get a part time job.  Borrow enough from your spouse to rehabilitate your loan.  Send everything from your part-time job towards debt payment.

I think I ( as your spouse) would be a little upset with the idea of paying off your debt if you aren't making an effort to work even 10 or 20 hours a week in a minimum wage job.  You might find he's more willing to help you if you make this effort.

If you're disabled or at home with kids, I withdraw my comments and understand completely.
 

No one deserves to be bullied or beaten up by a government system that is broken to begin with. You are not responsible for someone else's debt unless you are legally responsible for it. The system does not have to work with you if your spouse refuses to pay the debt for you. This is the message that the CSLP is sending out. Why should anyone seek assistance from them then? It is not opportunistic. It is indenture ship in form of enslavement to a despotic and barbaric government financial system.  

Royal NCO makes good points to the effect that IF a person can get by - then do so. I really don't know your case other than what you describe here. I am an advocate for the people - not the system, and one of my business works with people to cope with and solve problems cause by this insanely broken student loan system, and it's contracted  inadequate and dysfunctional privately-owned service center NSLSC. 

Another thing is that, we are never secure in a common-law relationship.  It can be over really quickly, with no payouts at all.  And, if I am already defaulted, I will have screwed myself out of RAP forever.  But they consider this as a marriage, but its not.  

And I would like to ask the NSLSC how do they expect me to get the income statement, and/or the money out of him?  Should I be stealing his info?  And digging into his bank accounts without telling him?  Maybe they have secured a way for their clients to do this?  After all he is a private citizen who never even took out a student loan.  

The message that the CSLP is sending out is that sugar daddies are the way to go.  Even if you are a proud woman, capable of earning your own money, not just for student loans, but for food and utilities, other bills, but the system is too broken.  The job system is broken too for that matter.  As far as I'm concerned, the government has a lot to do that would be ethical, not corrupt things further.

And hubby is a great guy.  I have my own moral issues in asking for his further support.  Especially, when I am capable, and strong, and able, and EDUCATED. Lots and lots of good people caught up in a corrupt system.  I felt everyone of the posts I read.  Who does this?  Why doesn't the government know about it?  No need to answer, these are rhetorical questions.

I see your point, but I also see their perspective.  In fact, it mildly irritate me too.   I totally understand that when you were poor, paying this debt would have been hard, and you should definitely have availed yourself of what you could to ease payment stress.  So many of us find ourself in a position where we worked minimum wage jobs and by the time we paid for our living expenses, there was nothing left.  Add to that their administrative errors, and suddenly we discovered we no longer qualified for any kind of payment relief.

In your case, you're trying to tell me that your hubby might be concerned that he no longer has a clean house and meals prepared if you work out of the home.  Well, yes, in this case, he very definately should pay your debt.  He's taking your unpaid service to better his own life and in exchange is putting a roof over your head and food in your belly.  You could be out there working a part-time job and earning the income you need to pay your debt.  Instead, you're at home servicing your spouse and not getting paid for it.  Sorry, but that's not fair to the rest of borrowers who are struggling to pay their bills and lack a spouse who can pay "for 9 people".

I see your spouse's perspective too.  You're both in your 50s.  He doesn't need your income and good credit to live comfortably.  Why should he care about your debt?  This is a bit controlling of him actually, because by not paying you're debt and keeping you as a house wife, he has effectively trapped you.

The issue here is what is right and what is wrong. Should the system hold the spouse of a borrower responsible to pay for a student loan that is not owed by him or her.  The answer is no. It shouldn't.  RoyalNCO, it is comparable to you taking out a loan at the bank and the bank deciding to approach someone else to pay it instead of you.  It is wrong, and why no one has legally challenged the government in it's legislative nonsense surrounding the BIA and CSLP is surprising. 

The way the government protects themselves in regards to the repayment calculations based on total income with spouse, and any objection (legal or not) is to simply say "Well, if you are not going to provide your spouse's income details then we will not provide you with any service and off to default you go." 

Human rights in the country mean nothing to government. You have no rights is pretty much what it says, thanks to the crazy judicial system and those who exploit it for economic gain and to restrict and take control over another. 

I see your point, and I agree that they can not force her to pay based on her husbands income.  However, qualifying for income dependant relief programs despite hiding behind a spouses high income, seems very wrong to me. Next your going to argue that she can qualify for social services because her personal income is very low.  No, the program is designed to relieve people with reduced or no income.  The OP doesn't qualify because she has an implied income and implied assets as a spouse of a gainfully earning spouse.

If you believe that the CSLP should be able to punish people because of wanting to exercise a legal right and not feel threatened by a powerful system, then you and the system are one in the same.  If you are "angry" because you didn't have it so good, and what Jane describes irks you, them simply say that is the case. But that does not have anything to do with the argument here. 

Cheating on tax issues is an offense. If caught, people deserve what they get for doing so. Same for fraudulent social assistance collection. No one has the LEGAL RIGHT or any right of way to do these things. 

But does the government of Canada have the right to punish someone whose spouse does not want to disclose his or her personal information? Their response to this question is exactly as I stated before and that is "We do not have to help you if your spouse will not give his or her personal information that we require to calculate a repayment plan." 

So, the borrower, who is unable to pay on his or her own suffers, and so does the spouse because the government has made it so that the spouse has no choice but to waive his or her legal right to privacy and non-disclosure to an organization that has nothing to do with him - other than the fact that they are threatening harmful repercussions on his or her loved one. 

 

But Johnny I know those income statements everyone gets while working have lots of numbers and other stuff on them.  Personal information.  And they are forcing it out of him, or I suffer.  

Expecting to benefit from income relief programs when you have your primary living expenses(room and board) paid for by someone else?  Also, not acceptable.

I don't think there is any ill intent from the NSLSC on this issue.  This is a tough situation.  On one hand, the spouse shouldn't be held accountable for her debt; on the other hand, why should she benefit from income relief when she has all her living expenses paid for, in the meantime many former students can't even pay their basic living expenses.

Jane, I am sorry, but the only right thing to do here is to get a part-time job.  Otherwise, accept the fact that you're going into default.  Marriage is a funny thing that immediately gets you into a potential financial mess, and I don't know the law in this case of a common law relationship.  To what extent is the home you're living in a marital asset, and can the government sue you and seize your share of that asset?  I am not saying this is right, but there is a lot about the system that isn't right, and you need to protect yourself.

... so you do feel that the government should punish Jane then for her common law spouse exercising his legal right. 

If Jane is not benefiting from the education in any way then that should be addressed. If there is no value or benefit then this si a good position to take. 

That is a completely different issue and is no way relevant to whether or not she can afford to pay her debt.  To what extent any of us should repay our educational debt if we aren't benefiting from our education, is a big question mark, however I think each and every one of us is at least partially responsible for our chosen career path whether or not we later benefit from it.

As for the real issue of whether or not she should qualify for income relief, I don't think so.  This is highly unfair to other less wealthy former students who are TRULY struggling.  None of us should be able to avoid our debt by marrying a gainfully earning spouse while choosing to live at home without seeking some kind of employment.  

For example: 

A 25 year old woman marries a gainfully earning spouse, has a couple of children, puts her career on hold for a few years to care for the kids.  Should she benefit from income relief?  Yes, because she is truly working hard to care for those kids.  

Jane on the other hand has NO responsibilities other than a choice to do what should be her spouse's equal share of the workload at home.  Sorry, this isn't right.  There is no reason why she can't seek part-time employment to pay her debt.

Should she be able to argue that she isn't gaining from her education.  Perhaps.  However, this is an entirely different issue.

I am basically the same age as you.  45.  Sorry, but you don't own the right to "poverty", and living the life of self-pity isn't going to get you through this problem.

I am ticked off with you, because you are CURRENTLY IN GOOD STANDING!  Don't F it up!!  Do you want to be proud and feel sorry for yourself - angry at the system that you can't pay off your debt with career related income?  Sure, go for it.  Spend the next 10 or so years until you're 60, hiding from the system.  That's what I did.  Royal Bank screwed me with their mistakes, so I got stubborn and refused to pay.  Who did I really hurt with this particular stunt???

You have a golden opportunity here.  You are in a good relationship with a well-heeled man.  Use this opportunity to keep your loans in good standing!!  Go get busy!  Find a part-time job and continue paying your debt.  If in the process of doing this you want to file a claim that you shouldn't be paying on the basis that you aren't using your education, so be it, go for it? 

By the way, I too am not using my education.  I too couldn't find gainful work in my field. Unfortunately, my wife earns very little.  Why?  Because she's been busy at home caring for my 2 and 4 year old!  I paid off the provincial debt with work that is slightly better than minimum wage.  The Federal debt is statute barred, but it feels really ugly knowing that it sits in the background getting bigger and bigger with interest.   

Don't sit there feeling sorry for yourself because this causes depression.  It puts pressure on your current relationship.  It makes it harder for you to find work.  It causes your reality where you're defined as "not a good fit".

  

DON'T BE PROUD AND DESTROY YOUR CURRENT GOOD STANDING!!!  GET YOUR BUTT OUT THERE AND FIND SOME PART-TIME WORK.  THEN ASK JOHNNY TO HELP YOU FILE FOR RELIEF ON THE BASIS THAT YOU AREN'T USING YOUR EDUCATION.

Well, aren't you lucky!  The rest of us who are ALSO struggling to find work in our field, HAVE bills to pay.  We don't have that luxury.  Even if Royal Bank hadn't screwed with me, I still wouldn't qualify for RAP because in my effort to support my family, my income is now too high.  But, alas, I'm not working in my field.

Average minimum wage in Canada $10.50.  Your monthly loan payment $450.  42.8 hours of work each month.  10 HOURS/WEEK.   That's all I ask of you!!   

I'm working 60 hours a week.  So are many people.  

Do you realize how many people in Canada have gone to university yet pursued careers unrelated to their degree?  Nobody ever promised you a job in your field!!
 

So how did the Royal bank screw it up for you?  We can't let them, and just ignore it.  But if we fight them, we tend to lose our ground, and no one wants to help us anymore.  If we approach things with a combative attitude the good people who can help will get away from you.  Depression comes and it goes, as it always has.  It is not something to worry about.  

So what is wrong with pride and dignity?  Those are rather very precious commodities to have in life. Wouldn't be able to hold down a life without it, not a job, not a relationship, nothing.  You'll even drive your kids crazy if you don't lift yourself out of the despair.  Maybe you are trying to tell me that pride in your case didn't help you.  I was diagnosed with PTSD from taking care of my elderly mother.  She got very mean and spiteful at old age.  That was just a few years ago.  I get the feeling that the doctors didn't want to help her too much.  It was like everyone was just waiting for this all to be over with.  Its so sad.  

Since this topic is about RAP, I guess what I should say is that I don't feel RAP can penalize me for what the spouse makes.  If you just wanted to say that I should just get my butt out there and try since I do have this chance, that you have learned and wanted to share that, I really wish you would have just done that.  

Whatever you try to say here, you need to keep it in good standing if at all possible.  You won't qualify for relief if you're more than 90 days in arrears.

Sorry to drag my stuff into this, but I can hear your anger and frustration and don't want you to blow it.  10 hours of menial work per week while you argue your case is nothing compared with the stress of a defaulted student loan!

My story:

Yes, this is my fear.  Actually, it looks like only about 2K of that is the Federal portion originally owed to RBC.  The rest is the federal portion owed to the new loans through OSAP.  All of it is with CRA, statute barred, and out of active collections.

However, yes, the renewed harassment and possible destroyed credit is the primary concern.  

And this, Jane, is why you must do everything you can to make those payments while you argue your case.  You can ill afford at this stage in your life the harassment and potential destroyed credit.  One day, you may find you are actively working in your field and you will curse the damage done to your credit and potential legal consequences as you try to move forward in your life.  There is truly no really good excuse for you not to get out there and work a few hours a week so that you can save your own ass while you argue your case.  Don't head into your late 50s and 60s harassed by defaulted student loans.  It will kill you way too early in your life.

I never said I'm gonna default.  I practically live in a one horse town.  Very few stores, where I can make anything like Royal is saying.  I know a few women friends who want those jobs so bad, been unemployed themselves for quite a while, and I'm almost a decade out of the retail business.  I did put my name in a while ago, but it seems like my skillset is geared to this only one thing I do, what I learned.  What I paid for, or not paid for yet.  Thats another thing, I don't want to default for, I already paid a handsome sum already, RAP is not always free.  Its like a geared to income pay.  

But they did offer me the interest only.  $130 a month.  And apparently default doesn't happen for 9 months.  That's what I read online anyway.  I did apply for jobs all over the country even.  I was willing to relocate at some point earlier on, but I have my children to think of too.  Once they went on their own, I was not able to take them, I was not wanting to move anymore.  Once my relationship happened, well we can't move.  Here is where his job is.  I've been alone for decades, he is the first guy I've been with since my tumultuous marriage, he himself was in an abusive relationship himself.  We are good together.  

I could babysit to earn that much, $130 a month.  I've had people who ask me, but I've been unable to due to career pursuits.  I so wished we could live a good life as equals, I hate the position I'm in, not able to help my family.  

I know I was taking things said here bad.  I've felt so stupid, scared, and literally sick.  Not that I need the good credit, I've never lived with either good or bad credit, I've somehow managed without it.  Just that I don't know what else the government is going to do to me.  I don't think anyone can answer that question, but there would be stress just wondering.

Happy Canada Day.

You need to initiate a formal dispute for the Trillium and HST.  Do you have an online account with CRA?  There is an option there: Register my Formal Dispute.  How long have you been living with your partner.  Can you prove that you were not living with him before that?  2013??  Did you mean to say 2015?

Doesn't that just make you cringe? 

It looks like I can make at least the interest only payment right now.  I'm watching my daughter's baby (2 months old) she gets paid by the government for babysitting while she attends school.  And I want some money for Christmas, I'm also looking into doing the Amazon HITS site for money, MTurk.  I'm not sure what it pays, but its something, and if I need help, I will ask hubby, what else can I do?  He has his own trustability issues, we are still taking baby steps, this is what we need to do.  

Oh, and Johnny I studied chemistry, and yes I got through the whole program.  And graduated.  Loved it, was exciting and fun, then I entered the world to work and I got all the grunge work.  I didn't mind, I felt this was "paying my dues", but I did that for almost a decade  I keep thinking it might be that I'm female, and they only want to hire men to do that job, but how can you take that as an issue and prove it?  Plus, I was older, but I don't look my age.  I get that I'm 15 years younger.  

I don't mind paying the $130 a month, and if things get better for me, maybe I'll pay more, but this is the least minimum I can pay.  I don't mind paying that even for the rest of my life, and hope they can just take the money out of my account monthly and I will never hear from them again.  But I guess I will hear from them again, as I know interest does go up.  

As well, I guess it would be right to say that I did make money off my education, more than the loan is, scattered over 8 years, I guess I have made enough.  Just now I'm having to practically having to take in the neighbour's laundry to pay it.  

RAP did serve me well, as a single parent, but it won't help me now in a relationship with an established partner.  But this is his stuff he did to create his life, it wasn't me.  I only love him for his calm demeanor, and its easy to be around him, no strife, and money, he does pay for everything here, no questions asked.  He has not asked me where is my part in all this.  That's why I do what I can to help him in his career.  Make his life easier.  I can understand why RAP is not available for me now.  Well, sort of, but I take issue to not having the money to pay for myself.  As far as the other people having to struggle while not being able to afford those payments, then having the stress, creditors on their back, income tax being taken, and future being held in lock down and perhaps eventual seizure, its scary.  I'm grateful that I only have to pay this one thing.  But I haven't told hubby yet that I will still not be able to help out in paying for stuff around here.  Just paying my own bills.  But that's less scary than having to face default.  

But I did want to default.  I wanted to tell them to go shove it.  But like Royal said we have no power, they have all the power, so yes, I'm glad I came here, I didn't understand.  I only thought that defaulting means that I don't bother with the mess anymore.  But I know that isn't true.  They will find some way to seize something of hubby's.  So yeah, pay as best as you can pay, take in laundry, feed the neighbour's cat, do something, if there is no job, find something to pay it.  

I'm probably going to sell some of my things, work as I can find the work, throw it all into a bank account that the student loan office can have, I'll never take from it, and I never want to hear from them again.  

The system is not sympathetic, unfortunately.  They will collect their piece of flesh if they can get away with it.

In your case, if your partner bought his house before he met you, and if you remain common law partners, there is very little they can actually do to come after his money.  Having said that, if you can avoid it, you really don't want to default.  You've exposed a lot more about yourself now and I can see how difficult it is for you to get temporary work.  

What is this arrangement you've made with them exactly.  Did you manage to qualify for some type of RAP anyhow? Are you certain that this arrangement keeps you in good standing, or do this smaller payments gradually grind you into a default state over a number of months.  Do you understand what I mean?  If your payment is $450, and you're paying $120, you're falling behind at a rate of $330/month.  This extends your time to default from 9 months to 12 months.   Don't just pay the $120 and forget about it; you may find you're still sent to collections.  Furthermore, if you're falling behind, any future RAP qualification will require you to get caught up with your payments first.  

Johnny, please fill her in exactly how the RAP rules work now because I don't know for sure.

Anyhow, I understand the frustration.  I am NOT stuck now, but I very definitely was for many years.  I was forced into default by their errors and denied any kind of RAP or interest relief.  Johnny now thinks I should just quietly pay, risk further damage to my credit, and risk my family's quality of life.  Nobody really cares, anyhow.  Everybody is in it for whatever they can take.  Why shouldn't I have the same attitude.  If I pay, and everything goes smoothly, everybody wins.  If I pay and my credit is destroyed, I have lost substantial productivity and greatly damaged the well-being of my dependants.

Good luck with this - and keep us posted on how things work out with your student loan matters!