Being sued, not sure what to do.
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Topic: Being sued, not sure what to do.
Posted By: crippled
Subject: Being sued, not sure what to do.
Date Posted: 11/October/2012 at 6:20am
| I'm quite unnerved so this will be rambly: I have a bank student loan debt from years ago, I was paying as much as I could but I'm now disabled and unable to work, and despite filing papers with the bank to keep my account from accumulating debt and going into collections, but after 2 different attempts they claim they never received -any- notice and have charged me accordingly. They have been made aware I have NO money, I could not even afford to file bankruptcy. Despite this, the bank supposedly sold my loan to collections who hounded me for about a year. In august I was given notice I had action pending filing against me, and I had to contact them or pay before it went to court. A month later, I'm handed a "summons" which was little more than a pile of paper saying I've had papers filed against me by the bank, suing for debt, interest and all legal fees. They were never available to speak to me (seemed odd a law office wouldn't have a clerk or secretary handy), but I left them messages explaining my situation, no response. There is no point in defending the case, I do still owe them the money, but they know full well I have -nothing- they can take and no income to garnish, I can't see any ethical lawyer going ahead with a case where there is nothing to take without at least trying to talk to me. So is this a grift from the collections agency, or am I in real trouble? I've tried to talk to these people so we could write it off or come to some understanding, but they've had no interest. I get only 600 a month welfare, which goes directly to my caretakers for rent, groceries and medical transport, with no savings, no car, no items of any value, so I'm terrified what they think they can take from me at this point. Kind of worried there is some way they can take action on my parents, they cannot afford the money or the stress. |
Replies:
Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 11/October/2012 at 11:30am
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THe loan wasn't sold. It was just assigned to them for collection. If they are taking legal action well knowing there is no avenues of execution upon summary judgment then it is odd. Unless it is due to barr and the bank wants to protect their best interest, or you were sued out of spite, which does occur. Some collectors behave that way unfortunately, and using the legal system as a means to bully or abuse is certainly not lawful. However, give an angry person a weapon then the likelyhood of him or her using it is pretty high. ------------- Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com |
Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 11/October/2012 at 11:31am
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Is it CIBC, RBC< or Scotiabank? ------------- Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com |
Posted By: crippled
Date Posted: 16/October/2012 at 1:30pm
| RBC. It's past date for defending the action too, mostly because I can't afford to defend it. What I don't get is what they expect to get, the court can award them the moon, but I'll never be able to give them a penny, they've put me into forcible poverty already. |
Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 17/October/2012 at 1:52am
|
Go to my facebook page. https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/The-CFW-Group-Inc/122160921144125?fref=ts" rel="nofollow - https://www.facebook.com/#!/pages/The-CFW-Group-Inc/122160921144125?fref=ts I am blogging later about this subject. It may come as a surprise to you but there are certain benefits that can come about for you and others in this situation. The bank and collection agencies bahave this way all the time. A perspective view and approach is what you need to have to better understand and tackle these conundrums. If the action was made because of a collector's dislike towards you for whichever reason then it is a bad action. However, it is a debt and banks, governments, creditors, etc, have the right to use the legal system to protect their best interests. THe problem for the most part is collection agencies because they are known for inserting their own agendas in some cases. Desperate people do desperate things. Desperate collectors do desperate things too. John LeBlanc - CFWG ------------- Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com |
Posted By: crippled
Date Posted: 17/October/2012 at 4:47am
| Oh I fully understand they have a right to sue me, I'm not arguing that, but the point is they are spending a lot of money on trying to get paid, but they've been informed I have no money to give them, and thanks to their actions, I may never be able to. Seems my best course of action is to have someone bail me out and pay for my bankruptcy filing. From what I've seen, it alleviates the debt, and by Canadian law I own nothing that can be taken from me as collateral. I can't even collect welfare directly because when I did, they took my rent/board payment from my account moments after it was deposited, returning my account sum to 0. |
Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 17/October/2012 at 6:57am
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Are you using the same bank account that you deposited your student loans into? If so they are aware of that account and the student loan agreement allows them to do that. You need to change banks! That way you should be able to keep your welfare payments.
------------- Administrator Mark OMeara Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024 |
Posted By: crippled
Date Posted: 17/October/2012 at 12:21pm
| Same name, different account, the loan was a "visa" account. It was a related account though, which is why they took it immediately. I was informed having any money in my name means they can issue a legal order to take it, at least till this situation is settled, which is why my welfare goes from my name right to my landlord's account. What I still don't understand is if this is just malice on their part, why waste the money? Do they assume I have a hidden treasure trove they can come in and take from me? My room is part of an unfinished basement, I have 3 walls and one is made of furniture. All I honestly own is my bed, some clothes, an old half broken laptop and little bits of worthless junk from the past. |
Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 17/October/2012 at 4:44pm
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The key is to be at a completely different Bank. It seems these collectors arent very smart. Most businesses or lawyers would realize that there is no point in going after someone who has no money.... I guess their hoping you win the lottery or something... but you are right, it makes no sense at all.... Make sure you completely change BANKS if you havent done so.... ------------- Administrator Mark OMeara Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024 |
Posted By: footloose
Date Posted: 18/October/2012 at 5:57am
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@Mark O'Meara
After reading the posts on this matter, I am somewhat confused.
What does "crippled" mean by a "visa" account? Is this a "Visa" credit card or a bank account? And if this is a bank account, then why is it called a "visa" account?
I am not aware of any provison in the law, including a student loan agreement, that provides for the withdrawal of funds including the bank's authority to exercise their "right of set-off" from a bank account into which welfare funds are directly deposited.
It must be emphasized that in order for the bank account to be exempt from seizure, garnishment or the "right of set-off" that the welfare funds must be a direct deposit and no other monies from any other source is deposited into this account.
If "crippled" receives a welfare cheque personally and then either cashes the cheque or deposits the cheque into a bank account, this will "taint" the bank account and then the account is available for seizure, garnishment or the "right of set-off".
If the only funds in this bank account are welfare payments made by direct deposit, no one including the bank who originally advanced funds for a student loan can legally withdraw any monies including the exercise of the "right of set-off" unless "crippled" explicitly provides a written signed agreement to a third party authorizing either a specific amount or for a specific purpose ( i.e. rent ) to be withdrawn.
If, in fact, monies have been illegally withdrawn from this bank account, "crippled"should contact her bank manager and bring this matter to his/her attention. "Crippled" would then be entitled to a refund of all monies withdrawn illegally and redeposited back into her bank account.
Both your comments as well as "crippled"'s comments would be most welcomed. ------------- Educating one Consumer at a time |
Posted By: crippled
Date Posted: 18/October/2012 at 7:44am
| Well I feel a bit better if there was no "Oh they can do this" that jumped to mind for anyone, and from what I've seen if I complete the bankruptcy process, and lay low for a while, I should be ok in a few years. However till I legally erase that debt, they can sue me if they see I have accounts elsewhere to take that money from me to cover my outstanding debt to them. Thanks for the help. |
Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 18/October/2012 at 9:37am
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Footloose, a very good point, morally speaking they shouldn't be taking welfare funds, or EI funds, but they do anyways. Numerous posts about that here. They take the money and then you have to try and get it back. The bank looks at the balance in the account. They don't review the transactions to see where the money came from. Is there anything a person can do in advance such as going to the bank and say "I'm on welfare, please block any recovery withdrawals"? ------------- Administrator Mark OMeara Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024 |
Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 18/October/2012 at 12:07pm
|
If a student loan borrower is in default with one of the banks for a student loan, and the borrower has a chequing account with that same bank, and that account has a sum of money in it, then the bank can and will seize that money if they find out. The set-off process does not recognize where the money came from. It just takes it. The right of off-set or "set-off" is outlined in the student loan agreement. Once signed, it clearly states that in the event of a default money can be recovered by way of set off. This applies to bank accounts with the same institution. In order to seize an account that is outside with another institution, they would first have to secure a judgement and then somehow find out what the account details are with the other institution. If a consumer owes Visa through a particular bank, and the debt is in default, then the bank can perform thr set-off IF the card holder's agreement states so. It is important to read the fine print in every application and agreement so you better understand these process and how they work. John LeBlanc - CFWG ------------- Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com |
Posted By: footloose
Date Posted: 18/October/2012 at 3:53pm
|
@Mak O'Meara There is far too much of this "nonsense" going on with the banks exercising their "right of set-off" by illegally withdrawing funds from bank accounts that under the law are exempt from seizure, garnishment and the "right of set-off". And until the victims take legal action to stop this practice, the banks will continue their illegal activities with impunity. If i was "crippled", here is what I would do. Her only income that she is currently receiving is welfare, therefore, she qualifies for "legal aid". She should then contact a lawyer and ask the lawyer if he/she does "legal aid" work because not all lawyers do. When she finds a lawyer that does "legal aid" work, tell the lawyer that she wants to sue RBC for removing funds illegally from her bank account which only contains welfare payments and these payments are made by direct deposit. Because the total amount of funds illegally removed from her bank account are less than $25,000, this lawsuit can be heard in the Small Claims Court. In addition, because she is only receiving welfare, all filing fees with the Court are waived. The next step would be to visit the "legal aid" office in her area and make an application for "legal aid". She will be asked numerous questions to confirm her eligibility to receive "legal aid" assistance. If the "legal aid" office is satisfied that she qualifies for "legal aid", they will then contact her lawyer and request an estimate of the total costs to initiate the lawsuit including the preparation of the claim, the serving of the claim and assuming that RBC will defend the claim, the attendance at a Mandatory Pre-Trial Settlement Conference. Because less then 3% of all claims ever proceed to trial, this lawsuit would in all likelihood be settled at the Conference. Let's say that the lawyer estimates that the total costs will not exceed $2,000. Legal Aid will then issue a Certificate to the lawyer for $2,000. That means that he/she can bill Legal Aid up to $2,000 for all legal services that were rendered. Should the costs exceed this amount, the lawyer would have to make a separate application to Legal Aid to authorize additional funds. On the other hand, let's say that RBC does not file a Defence and agrees to settle this matter out of court and the total legal expenses incurred are $500, then "crippled" is only required to repay $500. "Legal aid is not a "freebie" but is a temporary no-interest loan to provide for legal services for low income persons. "Crippled" can repay this loan at any time without interest. Because she owns no assets to which Legal Aid can attach a lien, she may be required to have a "guarantor" who will guarantee the repayment of this loan should she fail to repay it. Until people like "crippled" come forward and legally challenge the illegal activities of the "big, bad banks", they will continue to flaunt the law. I seriously suggest that "crippled" take the necessary legal steps that I have outlined above, otherwise, she will never get this "monkey" off her back. P.S. "Crippled" might also consider contacting a paralegal and ask if they do "legal aid" work. In some jurisdictions, they do while in others, they don't. Of course, the costs tend to be cheaper and a good paralegal can provide an excellent service. In addition, a paralegal can represent a client in a lower court, such as Small Claims Court but cannot represent a client in a higher court such as the Court of Queen's Bench, a Superior Court of Justice or a Provincial Supreme Court.
------------- Educating one Consumer at a time |
Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 18/October/2012 at 5:19pm
|
Umm err... yes legal aid..... do you mean the program that almost all provinces have gutted to the point where the services are no longer available? In most cases it is now just a self-help phone line. A few years ago a friend was robbed at gunpoint and was suffering from PTSD. She called victim services. took them 3 weeks to return the phone call... and they simply left a message. Sorry, I coming off as negative to your suggestion which I shouldnt be doing. You are correct that Crippled has some options. A law school legal aid clinic should be of help.... Footloose, the Canadian environment has drastically changed.... government services have been cut so badly because they are broke. In BC the legal aid clinic is in shambles. I'm not familiar with what its like in Ontario but I suspect the same. But I agree, Crippled DOES have some options.... welfare checks should not be taken.... and perhaps he/she can apply to have that money returned, or at least not taken in the future.... ------------- Administrator Mark OMeara Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024 |
Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 19/October/2012 at 3:26am
|
If I were "crippled" I would contact the director of the bank's collection office and demonstrate to them that what the bank seized was a social assistance benefit, if that is what the money was from. All she has to do is contact her social worker to provide proof that the money seized was a financial benefit for basic needs and then that should work. The bank wants to see proof. Anyone can say anything and the fact is that. Creditor's right are consumer "unfriendly" and serve the best interest of creditors at the expense of consumers, including any hardships that are caused by it. So, while she is out looking to hire an attorney that she can't afford anyway, perhaps this might be a starting point and see what comes of it. If she wants some help putting together some of the material she needs then I would be willing to help her at no cost if she is in fact on social assistance.  John LeBlanc - CFWG ------------- Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com |
Posted By: crippled
Date Posted: 20/October/2012 at 5:49pm
|
Visa as in the bank itself referred to to the student loan as a line of credit, and to access it it was listed under "Visa" even though it had nothing to do with the company, and no I have no idea why either. The bank claims I authorized them to take money from my account, but I was never asked, I was informed via the phone that money had already been removed to cover outstanding debt. I did speak with them many times to try and recover the money but was effectively stonewalled. In short, they don't see a mistake. I did attempt to speak with legal aid twice now, just for information, but they didn't have time to help me it seems, I don't blame them since this is comparatively minor and as admin there says, they are running on shoestrings. At this moment it sounds like they can't do much more than demand payment, but does anyone know for sure if filing bankruptcy would keep them from hounding me in the future? |
Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 20/October/2012 at 7:31pm
|
Hi Crippled, Thanks for clarifying.... What we need to know to help you whether your 'student loan' was applied for at a bank, or through a provincial or federal student loan program. Did you apply for a student line of credit? That makes a huge difference. ------------- Administrator Mark OMeara Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024 |
Posted By: crippled
Date Posted: 21/October/2012 at 5:19am
| Directly from the RBC. A federal loan would have been quite different I know. |
Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 21/October/2012 at 7:01am
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If it is a RBC student line then they usually require a co-signer. Did one of your parents co-sign it?? ------------- Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com |
Posted By: crippled
Date Posted: 21/October/2012 at 7:33pm
| Not that I remember, back then I had very good credit rating held for over 10 years, I don't remember being asked for a cosign. |
Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 22/October/2012 at 3:28pm
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If you want to find out what it is you owe I can help you, if you want that help. Youy can't remember details that I need in order to make a proper assessment of what yours cinsists of. The only other way is to communicate with the system to piece it together. ------------- Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com |
Posted By: crippled
Date Posted: 23/October/2012 at 5:52am
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Double checked, couldn't rely on memory, But no, I did not require a co-sign as I was working at the time and had impeccable credit. Technically I still do with Visa (it was always paid off with a 30-40 float each month), but the bank had them close my account when I went into claims with them. So yes, I own nothing they can take, nobody co-signed, and I have no prospective income. Is there a way I could prove to them I have nothing? I'd rather not have to deal with someone coming to repossess my things, who doesn't understand this isn't my home, I own virtually nothing in this house. I've tried calling the law office who filed the action but they've ignored my messages asking for more information. |
Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 23/October/2012 at 5:56am
|
Who is the attorney? ------------- Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com |