Looking for advice regarding an old student loan.
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Forum Name: Collection of Old - Stats Barred - Loans
Forum Description: Post questions about old loans and Statute of Limitations Issues
URL: https://www.canadastudentdebt.ca/forum_posts.asp?TID=6337
Printed Date: 27/March/2026 at 2:17am
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Topic: Looking for advice regarding an old student loan.
Posted By: Percer
Subject: Looking for advice regarding an old student loan.
Date Posted: 19/January/2012 at 12:11pm
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I apologize in advance for a lack of specific details, my documents are in another location at the moment. This is my story and problem. I attended the University of Toronto as a adult part-time student in 1998 and received a loan to do so. I attended only 1 month of classes before I had a bit of a financial crisis and had to leave school in order to work full time. I filled out forms at the university which were supposed to have reduced my fees and went on with my life. I was (and still am) a low-income earner and was chased by a collection agency for many years. Last year I was taken to court and through the help of my lawyer, managed to settle for about $7k from $9k. That amount was paid off in full about a month later. Finally this was behind me, or so I thought. Fast forward to this week, I receive a letter from the government informing me that I would not receive GST rebate cheques due to an outstanding loan. I call to tell them that the amount was paid off in full in the summer, and to please update their records. I'm told that the amount that was paid off was only 1/3rd of the total debt - the bank debt. I still owe over $5k to the provincial debt and an unknown amount to the federal debt. I have never heard of these other two debts, even through the entire process of the court trial. We even had a representative of the University of Toronto at the trial and these separate debts were never mentioned. They are not on any of the documentation I have, were never mentioned or discussed and I've never even received a letter about them - ever. I was not until I made the phone call about GST refunds that I even learned about them. I have since contacted my lawyer and have yet to hear back from him (he's on vacation), but I figured I'd post here in the meantime to see what kind of advice I could get. After dealing with this problem for 14 years I thought I had finally put it behind me.. now I learn that the process might start over again. |
Replies:
Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 20/January/2012 at 11:18am
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The loan you settled was the risk-shared portion of your student loan. what you are describing is relating to the guaranteed Canada student loan that the government holds. You are part of the first generation student loan system and, once defaulted, the loans split into three, sometimes four parts.
Johnny ------------- Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com |
Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 20/January/2012 at 3:17pm
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How far back does this debt go? You may want to read up on the term 'stats barred' on this website....
------------- Administrator Mark OMeara Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024 |
Posted By: EWF004
Date Posted: 02/March/2012 at 1:12am
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Hi all First time form post :) I too have had the same happen ( but some time ago) and lost faith and ability to repay my loan. It was so nice to finally close off a chapter in my life ( that my loans were finished) and Bingo CIBC pulled a Fast one on me and "found" a new Student loan for me. It was now been 10 or so years and I am looking to tidy up the past sins/loans and pay off these Loans, I have heard about limitations etc but can't really get my head around the idea or concept. ( If I understand it rightly the loan is still there but the gov't can't chase me for the payment?- but interest keeps mounting?) Although I am in no finacial possition to pay off all my loan I have had an offer from a family member to help pay it off, Can i ask, Does the governement consider settling the loan for a lower amount? or what would you recommend me to do? Any help and or advice is much appreciated |
Posted By: EWF004
Date Posted: 28/March/2012 at 4:49am
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HI all I have been heard that the Fed's are looking to wipe old student loans which are in stat barred and beyond limitations(very old loans etc)? are these rumors true? and does anyone know what this means for those who are in "stat barred" / "beyond limitations"? (not that i want to avoid the loan forgiveness but it would make life much easier).. Additionally after lenghty research and investigation - I would like to investigate whether my loan is Stat Barred or beyond limitation - does any one know how I can find out the status of my loan.? does anyone have a guide on how to contact the Gov't without "acknowledging" the loan and resetting the clock? any help would be great as i have read that the Gov't might be open to settle a old stat barred loan and be a little more flexibel over a current active student loan? I ask the above as I am keen to clear old debts and make a fresh start in life and if anyone can help I would be Very grateful. |
Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 28/March/2012 at 4:45pm
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The government is not looking to wipe em out. They are looking for ways to get people to acknowledge them so they have the power once againt o enforce repayment CRA style. Search the forum for answers to your questions. I have posted many write-ups concerning limitation issues. It just means that they cannot take any action or engage any proceedings to recdover the money owed. If you want to find out if you are in that $300 + million worth of barred (or soon to be barred) barrell it isn't something that can be done here.
The govenrment does not settle just because of a limitation issue. Besides, it would be an admission of liability anyway because you will have to acknowledge the debt in order to get through the proposal phase and there is no guarantee they will accept. These types of matters (limitation discovery or debt reduction) lend absolutely no room for error.
If you want this done professionally you can call me privately. ------------- Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com |
Posted By: footloose
Date Posted: 28/March/2012 at 6:31pm
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Earlier this month, there was an article in the Ottawa Citizen newspaper stating that Ottawa is being forced to write off nearly $312 million in unpaid Canada Student Loans from 98,448 debts dating back more than a decade because the government says "all reasonable efforts to collect the amount owed have been exhausted". Alyson Queen, spokeswoman for Human Relations and Skills Development Minister Diane Findley said " The loans referenced have not received payment in six years". "The loans were deemed unrecoverable and as such were written off." More than 98 per cent of the loans written off by the government are dropped because of the expiry of a six-year limitation period between when the borrower last acknowledged a loan and any legal activity by the Crown to recoup the debt, according to the department. Once this period has expired, the Crown no longer has the authority to collect the debt. In an attempt to snare the dollars before the government is legally barred from doing so, it is customary to refer these debts to the Canada Revenue Agency ( CRA ) whereby they will send monthly statements and collection letters, recoup income tax refunds as well as withhold GST payments and refer accounts to the Attorney General of Canada which could potentially result in the garnishment of wages and the seizure of assets. The article did not elaborate as to the reasons why there had been no payments or acknowledgments made within the six year period but one can only speculate. In my view, this has been a major boondoggle starting with poor recordkeeping practices, lousey collection practices, unacceptable communication practices between the government and the student debtor, the total lack of transparency, the inability of the CSL program to adequately assess a student's personal financial situation and develop and monitor a reasonable repayment program within a set of guidelines and the poor implementation and follow through of policy and the inadequate training of personnel charged with the responsibility of administering the Canada Student Loan program through the National Student Loan Service Centre. I might suggest as to why these student loans became uncollectable. The student has emigrated from Canada to live and work in another country. The student has been unable to find gainful employment and is living with family, relatives or friends. The student is receiving social assistance ( welfare or disability payments ) to which is not subject to garnishment. The student has become part of the "underground economy". The student has become a stay-at-home caregiver with little or no source of income being supported by a spouse or a common-law partner. This is not an exhaustive list but it does provide some insight as to why these student loans were written off. I am not proposing a solution to these defaulted student loans. I am only speculating the causes and the reasons for the mass write-off. In answer to your question as to the status of an old student loan, an inquiry as to the existence or status of a student loan does NOT constitute an "acknowledgment". Under Section 16.1 of the Canada Student Financial Assistance Act and under Section 19.1 of the Canada Student Loans Act both define the term "acknowledgment" in identical language. The word "inquiry" does NOT appear in Paragraphs (a) to (d) of either Subsection 16.1(4) or Subsection 19.1(4). If you are interested in determining the status of your student loan, I would suggest that you contact the National Student :Loan Service Centre and attempt to find out what information, if any, they have on your old student loan. Who knows, you may have been one of the lucky 98,448 student debts that just got written off. . ------------- Educating one Consumer at a time |
Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 29/March/2012 at 6:58am
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A caution on a couple of points. First, the National Student Loan Centre would not have your loan. It would be with a collection agency, the CRA or perhaps with a bank - And the NSLCS or the collection agency WILL NOT advise you whether its stats barred. And that even though it is un-collectable it doesn't mean they wont try. If you make a call, then they have your phone number through call display.... and will smell money and start harassing you If the monster is sleeping, DONT WAKE IT UP! I think that your general statement that an inquiry does not constitute acknowledgement is dangerous as it depends on the wording of the inquiry and whether it is verbal or in writing. And remember that all calls to the NSLSC are recorded. ------------- Administrator Mark OMeara Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024 |
Posted By: kcsige
Date Posted: 25/October/2012 at 4:39pm
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okay so everyone is talking about the government portion,but what about the risk portion that is with the bank. I have paid off everything I owe on my provincial and federal loans in full already. But Scotia bank is telling me I still owe the 'risk portion' this is going back to 1997. Can they come after me with this? Is this not 'status barred' as its not a government student loan, but a bank student loan? My laywer told me to do nothing, and to ignor it, the government says I owe nothing and I have the documents to prove it, but a new collection agency is calling and it won't stop? |
Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 26/October/2012 at 5:28am
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Hi KCSIGE, I;ve answered here... its easier to keep just one thread for your questions and answers rather than posting a couple of times... but I do understand your frustration with this situation and need for help. Here's a bit of an explanation. Over the years the govt changed programs. The first program was guaranteed loans. The next program was the risk shared program... then they changed again.... For people who were going to school during the times the program changed, they ended up with 4 to 6 different loans, but in most cases just four. You would have a federal and provincial guaranteed loan, and a federal and provincial risk shared loan for a total of four loans. Each loan might be sent to a different collection agency.... yes...yikes.... or in the case of Bank of Nova Scotia, misplaced the info about one of your loans. I believe old guaranteed loans are now collected by the CRA. With the risk shared loans, each year the bank could send back to the government a portion of defaulted loans. If the loan was not sold back, it stays with the bank, if sold back to the government, the CRA would now be trying to collect it. Some things to protect yourself. 1) If your loan was with BNS, make sure you no longer bank with them. Otherwise they might have the right to go into your bank account into which the student loan was deposited. 2) It may be advisable to change phone numbers and get an unlisted number and unpublished number. Cost of doing that isn't very high nowadays.... yes, inconvenient, but at least the calls should stop unless they find your number again. 3) another option is to talk to John at CFWGroup.ca to see what he can do for you. My memory is aging about these programs :) so anyone please add to the above if you can... ------------- Administrator Mark OMeara Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024 |
Posted By: footloose
Date Posted: 26/October/2012 at 10:24am
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After conducting much research and reading and studying the many blogs and posts regarding "risk-shared" student loans and in particular "put-back" student loans issued by the banks, I have come to the conclusion that banks who are seeking to recover defaulted "put-back" student loans are inadvertently doing so in contravention of their agreement with the Federal government.
But first, a primer on "put-back" student loans, sometimes referred to as a CSL2.
Under the risk-shared" agreements, the Federal government will purchase from the participating financial instituton ( i.e. the bank ), any Federal student loan issued between August 1, 1995 and July 31, 2000 that is in default of payments for at least 12 months after the period of study and that, in total, do not exceed 3 per cent of the average monthly balance of the lender's outstanding student loans in repayments. The amount to be paid to the lender ( i.e. the bank ) is set at 5 per cent of the value of the loan in question. The amount paid to the lender represents principal plus accrued interest.
A "put-back" student loan is a "risk-shared" student loan issued by a participating financial institution ( i.e. a bank ) to which the Federal government has agreed to purchase from the lender for 5 cents on the dollar. The loan is then transferred to the Federal government for collection and now, the lender ( i.e. the bank ) is now officially and legally "out of the picture".
The same analogy applies when a credt card issuer sells a defaulted debt to a collection agency or a debt buyer. The credit card issuer is now "out of the picture" and has no further claim on the debtor.
However, banks who issued "risk-shared" student loans which later became "put-back" student loans seem to operate in an entirely different stratsaphere. They take the positon that since they received 5 per cent from the Fededral government for a "put-back" student loan, they are still entitled to chase the debtor for the remaining 95 per cent. This practice is, of course, illegal. But I have to wonder how many times a bank has illeglly expropriated monies from unsuspecting and uninformed debtors.
In my view, the many readers and members of this forum should become very aware of this illegal practice and when approached by either a bank or a collection agency who has been assigned this "alledged" debt to collect should demand validation of this outstanding and unpaid student loan. Failing this, the debtor should send a registered letter to either the bank or the collection agency stating that they dispute this claim and request that the matter be taken to court. ------------- Educating one Consumer at a time |
Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 26/October/2012 at 10:42am
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Once a loan is put back it is property of the government of Canada at that point. THe bank receives the agreed upon sum (5%) and that is all. All federal risk shared loans are labeled CSL2. However, the bank is only able to submit a claim for loss to the government each year in the amount of 1% of the defaults. This means the banks can ultimately pick and choose who they want to send over to the government under Put-Back. If the bank is doing something illegal then the authorities should be notified. Wait a sec ... government has a license to break the law, isn't that correct? ------------- Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com |
Posted By: kcsige
Date Posted: 27/October/2012 at 3:13am
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thanks to everyone for your helpful advice. I think I am starting to understand all of this now. I have and will continue to seek help from my laywer on this issue. He said that government student loans have no statue of limitations if its is the government who is collecting the loan. However he has data showing cases that have been argued with banks on the definition of the "at risk" or "put back" portions that they do not fall under the category of 'government' as the bank is trying to collect using outside collection agencies. Therefore he feels these loans are status barred. So we shall see. It makes me sick that I and others have to suffer this harrassment on and off for our whole lives. Something should be done about it. However I am not sure taking on the big banks is well advised. My credit rating is not effected, and I have an excellent score. there has never been anything on there about this loan at all. I keep a close watch on that and will change all my numbers. Thanks again for the advice |
Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 27/October/2012 at 6:21am
Unfortunately, that is untrue. Sure, if the loan is a Nova Scotia or Ontario guaranteed or direct loan, but that only applies to these two provinces. Just because the loan has been returned to its respective government owner doesn't exempt it from a limitation issue. Good luck! ------------- Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com |
kcsige wrote:Posted By: EWF004
Date Posted: 23/April/2014 at 11:18pm
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Hi all I know this is an old post but i would like some advice if you can help? I have a CSL held with the CRA/HRDSC (Federal CSL) and its been well over six years and i know its passed its limitation, I want to close this chapter in my life and move on. Where can i go to get a confirmation that the loans have been stat barred? Can a lawyer help in this matter or debt service counselor? what options and avenues do i have? has anyone ever had loans stat barred? thank you in advance for comments and direction? |
Posted By: campbell1972
Date Posted: 25/April/2016 at 8:17am
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It looks like I am a late comer to this discussion so I hope someone is still checking into this forum. My situation is complicated. I struggled to find employment after university and by 2004 had filed for bankruptcy. My Canada Student Loans were from 1997-2001. My provincial loans were paid. I returned to university in 2007 at which time I checked into my debt. I had received an inheritance that I was required to repay by the Province of Manitoba at the request of the government of Canada because the inheritor had not been paying their income taxes. I again struggled. In January 2015 I received a phone call from RBC collections demanding I pay something like $80,000 for my loans! I reopened the file on my bankruptcy to find out what was going on. While I was waiting to hear from my trustee RBC sent my loans to Canadian Credit Adjusters. My trustee then advised me that CSLs were not part of the bankruptcy and had to be paid separately so I started repayment through CCA on two loans with interest amounting to about $44,000. In the meantime I received another inheritance of a more substantial amount and satisfied the Manitoba Courts demands for repayment of all debts owed to my creditors which also included two loans that had the exact same principal I was paying down through CCA. So my questiona are; 1. Should I be or have been paying CCA at all? 2. Did my trustee give me the proper advice? 3. At any point should I have qualified under a statute of limitations? 4. Has RBC by accepting the court ordered funds cancelled the right to have me in collections? 5. I am now living in Ontario. How will that affect my situation? I hope there is some good advice out there.
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