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CIBC Student Loan & Mortgage Approval

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Topic: CIBC Student Loan & Mortgage Approval

Posted By: TCrown
Subject: CIBC Student Loan & Mortgage Approval
Date Posted: 11/November/2011 at 1:40am

Hey all,

Hope someone can help cause I'm in a desperate situation. My wife & I purchased a home and have received mortgage approvals from a few lenders, our closing date to move in end of January 2012. We both have good jobs, my credit score 620 and my wifes is 750 and we qualify for the mortgage no problem.

The ONLY PROBLEM is one of the conditions on my mortgage approval to go through that the lender needs to see that m CIBC student loan on my credit report is cleared up.

This CIBC loan was opened up in 1999 and "date of last activity" 01/2008. Shows balance of $10,000. I contacted the CIBC student loan centre and they advised me that this file is a collection account and has been closed off since 2008. They said its been in the hands of the famous "CBV Collections". I called the provincial loan office and they advised me I have no outstanding provincial loans and I called the CRA (Canada Revenue Agency) who advised the same thing.

So my understanding that this CIBC student loan is the "bank risk" portion only.

*Question #1* - does that mean the loan is stats barred or hs been written off by CIBC????

*Question #2* - my broker contacted CBV and rudely we were told that they are "STILL" collecting on behalf of CIBC and that the balance somehow is now $14,500. They also said they will not settle for less than 80 cents on the dollar. Is CBV lying about this acount in relation to being connected to CIBC??? We also told CBV that we spoke to reps at the CIBC loan centre and CBV had the nerve of saying we were lying and wanted to know the reps name. they also said that CBV systems are tied in with CIBC so if we did call they would have seen notes/documentation. Sounds like a bunch of crock to me......what do u think?

*Question #3* - how or what can I do? my wife and I already put down $15,000 on the house and have less than 90 days to satisfy he lender requirement otherwise we lose everything.

Please please help!!!!!!

SKR

Replies:

Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 11/November/2011 at 4:55am

TCrown wrote:

*Question #1* - does that mean the loan is stats barred or hs been written off by CIBC????

From what you have described the student loan is not statute barred.

TCrown wrote:

*Question #2* - my broker contacted CBV and rudely we were told that they are "STILL" collecting on behalf of CIBC and that the balance somehow is now $14,500. They also said they will not settle for less than 80 cents on the dollar. Is CBV lying about this acount in relation to being connected to CIBC??? We also told CBV that we spoke to reps at the CIBC loan centre and CBV had the nerve of saying we were lying and wanted to know the reps name. they also said that CBV systems are tied in with CIBC so if we did call they would have seen notes/documentation. Sounds like a bunch of crock to me......what do u think?

Collection agencies only have blanket permission to settle on 85% (or as low as 80%) on those loans. However, if you've applied for and have been approved for a mortgage, and CIBC sees this, they likely won't agree on anything.

Having your mortgage broker contact them was a very bad idea. Brokers are commission hungry just like collectors, and are equally as “pushy” to get the results they seek. That is the reality of commission only work. I have seen so many cases of brokers creating so many more problems in this regard.

Collection agencies are connected to CIBC systems through a technology called “collection highway”.

TCrown wrote:

*Question #3* - how or what can I do? my wife and I already put down $15,000 on the house and have less than 90 days to satisfy he lender requirement otherwise we lose everything.

If the bank is telling you that the CIBC loan has to be paid then that is their condition.

If you want to approach CIBC to settle the debt for less then you will have to demonstrate that you are unable to pay the debt due to hardship and inability to pay the debt. If CBV and CIBC see that you only want to settle or pay because of the inconvenience and that your mortgage depends on it then that is going to be a difficult task I am afraid.

Best – Johnny

-------------
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com

Posted By: TCrown
Date Posted: 11/November/2011 at 7:31am

So basically I'm screwed over is what ur saying??. But how could a "risk loan" be active still if I've no contact since 2008 and btw they also faxed me a 5 page list of payments made since 99' to 2008 with balance remaining of $10,000 and then on last page it says new balance of $14,000 without any explanation.

My mortgage is with a CIBC company (First-Line) and how come when I called the CIBC loan centre they told me it was closed since end of 2007 which was 6 years after it went into default.

Also why would this risk loan not be stats barred?? im confused as to what makes it one

Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 11/November/2011 at 11:35am

TCrown wrote:

So basically I'm screwed over is what ur saying??. But how could a "risk loan" be active still if I've no contact since 2008 and with balance remaining of $10,000 and then on last page it says new balance of $14,000 without any explanation.

My mortgage is with a CIBC company (First-Line) and how come when I called the CIBC loan centre they told me it was closed since end of 2007 which was 6 years after it went into default.

Also why would this risk loan not be stats barred?? im confused as to what makes it one

TCrown wrote:

btw they also faxed me a 5 page list of payments made since 99' to 2008

Making a payment is acknowledging the debt, which resets that clock. Every acknolwedgement made resets it.

TCrown wrote:

balance remaining of $10,000 and then on last page it says new balance of $14,000 without any explanation

The only explanations could be interest in arrears or accounting error.

TCrown wrote:

My mortgage is with a CIBC company

If it is a CIBC company then they have some trade access to CIBC customer account information and records then. If you have a CIBC student loan that is outstanding and in recovery they are going to see that.

Limitations are not going to matter to CIBC.

Posted By: TCrown
Date Posted: 11/November/2011 at 12:34pm

I made a payment or sent them anything in writing. Also ur response to part of the stats barred of my post did not show up. So is there anything I can do? CBV told me they had the account since 2003 and CIBC student loan centre advised me loan was closed in 2008. is it possible CBV just bought it out fully and is trying to collect as much as possible for themselves?

The CIBC rep we dealt with for mortgage could not find any info on loan details other than it being on my credit report.

Posted By: TCrown
Date Posted: 11/November/2011 at 12:39pm

Also does verifying my info as they keep asking me to do (which I haven't done) , AND/OR making an offer for settlement or discussing the account make it an acknowledgement of debt????

Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 11/November/2011 at 12:43pm

Did you or did you not make a payment in 2008? In one post you indicated that you did.

-------------
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com

Posted By: TCrown
Date Posted: 11/November/2011 at 1:09pm

May 2007 was last payment I've ever made.

Posted By: TCrown
Date Posted: 11/November/2011 at 1:24pm

Opening balance in 1999 was $9995.00, then in 2000 went up to $10,400 and has stayed there ever since. Also says total payments to date is $5376.00.

Then says balance to date is $10,400 and new balance with accrued interest of $3595.00 is what now adds up to $14,000.

Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 11/November/2011 at 1:42pm

Limitations don't matter though as I pointed out to you above. CIBC and First know it is there. From what you described they want it taken out as a condition to your mortage deal. If the motae provider made it a condition then you have to honor that, unless you can find a away to negotiate somethin else.

Perhaps refinance and take out a loan to pay out the old collection account.

Posted By: TCrown
Date Posted: 11/November/2011 at 1:49pm

Ok thanks for ur help. Much appreciated!! So to confirm if I discuss settlements with them then that is NOT considered an acknowledge of debt right??? i have about $6000 cash I can settle with but I dunno if they'll go for that.

Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 12/November/2011 at 3:17am

Making a payment, sending something to them in writing (whether or not it contains a promise to pay), going bankrupt, getting sued or having a stateemnt of claim filed before the expiry of the prescribed limitation period is an admission, is considered an admission of liability.

They are likely going to want to see your total household income, proof of expenses, and a written illustration from you that outlines your hardship that warrants settling for less.

Best,

Johnny

Posted By: TCrown
Date Posted: 29/November/2011 at 4:36am

Hey Johnny,

Just an update and a question. After numerous phone calls to the CIBC Student Loan Centre, and being referred to CBV Collection. I called CBV and spoke with a supervisor named Mary, right off the bat she offered to settle for 80% of the balance & I agreed. She said she would get the settlement letter drawn up and sent to me within 24 hours. Its now been 24 hours and Mary called me back stating......

" As pr CBV & CIBC directives they need to verify my income via paystub, financial questionnaire and hardship letter"

I told her NO. Then she said hold on let me confirm, then put me on hold for 30 seconds and came back and said no hardship letter rquired but they still need the other info.

Is this claim warranted or is this some new tactic of theirs to try to avoid a settlement and go for full amount. I did not ask for the settlement they offered it and I took it.

Mary now says she will escalate this with someone from CIBC to see what they say supposedly.

Does any of this make sense?

Thanks

Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 29/November/2011 at 12:46pm

I have heard of this requirement from the agemcy, yes. What is strange is that others are not required to. Other collectors with other agencies issue the conditions, take your money, scratch their commission earnings from the money you sent them on a big white board under their name, and them cut you loose.

Something seems kinda fishy here. If it is an older loan then I would be very suspicious. You did say that the debt originated long ago.

Here is something to think about:

1) If there is a limitation issue then collectors are required to push for activations, or what we call "acknowledgements". This cancels out any potential limitation issues, and allows the bank to pursue you legally once again.

2) Collection agencies are paid upwards to 40% on old accounts. The incentive is there for the collectors to try to collect 80% rather than lower amounts because of the higher commission rate attached to these older accounts.

Do you know what the date of default was on this loan? How long has it been with collection agencies? when was the last time you actually made a payment on it, or sent them anything in writing?

I can't physically see what you are dealing with because I am not involved.

Posted By: TCrown
Date Posted: 29/November/2011 at 6:16pm

Loan was taken out in 1999. Balance as $9995. It went into default late 2001-early 2002. CBV has had the account since then. my date of activity August 2008.

Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 30/November/2011 at 11:08am

What was the activity though?

Posted By: TCrown
Date Posted: 30/November/2011 at 1:57pm

It was a payment.

Also this lady from CBV called me again and NOW says no documentation required for 80% settlement. She says she will get settlement letter to me once I pay $2000 at western union. I told her NOPE. unless I get something in writing first.

The lady calls me this morning saying everything ready to go, then all of a sudden says she made a big mistake the balance is now 14,000. and if I want the same $8300 settlement I would have to send in all documents since it would make under 80%. i basically told her off. their story always changes and its becoming frustrating. I told CIBC themselves confirmed balance was $10,000 and she says she care she controls the account and its now $14,000

Posted By: TCrown
Date Posted: 30/November/2011 at 2:03pm

Are u able to help me get this resolved?

Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 01/December/2011 at 4:24am

It was month end yesterday so that is the collector's reason for the desperate attempt to get you wire over $2000 via WU Quick Collect. NEVER send any money pertainiong to a settlement agreement without first receiving a written approval that it "will" be accepted once paid. Conditional releases are paramount to your safety in this regard.

Don't "tell them off" like you are describing. If CIBC perceives that you are being a bully they will treat you like one and not give you the time of day. You are damaging your chances. Once you painted red by the bank and the collection ageny that damage is irreconcilable.

Posted By: TCrown
Date Posted: 01/December/2011 at 4:29am

Well I did not tell her off, kindly expressed my dissatisfaction without swearing and told her have a good day and hung up.

I did call CIBC national student this morning. spoke with one rep then she said to contact their Customer Response Unit with regards to this problem. So that is what is up next for me.

Posted By: TCrown
Date Posted: 01/December/2011 at 6:00am

Update: Spoke to CIBC Customer Response Unit and the guy kept putting me on hold to talk to a student loan specialist cause he provide the answers I wanted. He said it shows this account is up for settlement with CBV. I told him it was, but CBV now wants more $. he said hold. he comes back and says it shows CBV advised u the balance was $14,436 so 80% of that would be $11 grand. he ended up saying I have to deal with them and responsible for whatever CBV asked for.

He then said its part of your loan agreement when I took out the loan. so I told him to please send me a copy of my original loan documents with my signature. he put me on hold for 15 mins. came back and said he would mail it and enjoy the rest of my day.

Posted By: TCrown
Date Posted: 02/December/2011 at 2:21am

Ok I just checked my email, cuz I remember CBV sending me some breakdown of payments. Starts with $9995.00. Then goes to $10,436 and stays like tht for rest of the years. It shows payments of $50, 150 and in 2008 of $500 and all payments seem to be directly going no where.

I can tell document page 1 looks somewhat altered by CBV or at least I think so. It also says "Division 1 Loan - Class B Govt FE Loan" if that means anything.

Says : Nov 1/99 - $9995

Then as of Dec 1/99 - $10,436.15.

Then from Nov 2001 to April 2007 - I paid $50.00 consecutively every month except maybe 6 months worth missing throughout those years.

(There is one discrepancy or TYPO where it says March 2006 value date $50.00 and process date May 2008). Whereas every other line in this 10 page thing doesn't have a mistake. Don't know if tht means anything.

And lastly July 2008 to Nov 2008 - it says I paid $500 a month. That's it.

*** Then has a summary saying :::::

Total Interest Paid - $ 5376.00

Principal Outstanding - $10436.15

Accrued Interest for pymt by student - $ 3595.29

Amount of payout - $14031.44 due Nov 2011 (typed in)

Next payment due date --- March 31st, 2004 ?????? :s

And that's it!! I can send it to you by email if you want to look at it also.

Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 02/December/2011 at 7:26am

They can go lower than 80%

-------------
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com

Posted By: TCrown
Date Posted: 02/December/2011 at 8:00am

Yeh I know that, but then CBV wants all these documents and I do not trust them with that info.

Based on what u've seen here and the dates/pyments etc and being this seems to be a "risk loan" off fed amount. What should I do? I also have confirmed with the provincial management unit and the CRA that nothing is outstanding to them.

Posted By: TCrown
Date Posted: 03/December/2011 at 7:39am

Is there a service or fee your group offers that can take care of this for me via settlement or somehow getting this cleared asap. I've read some other forums about settlements on this site, so hopefully you can help. please let me know

Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 03/December/2011 at 11:14am

This site isn't where I provide mediation or intervention work. I simply come here to provide information and guidance from time to time.

The only thing you can do right now is to go back to the collector and provide what the bank wants. The collector has said that documentation is required in order to go lower. In most cases that is the protocol.

What exactly is it that they are asking for?

Posted By: TCrown
Date Posted: 03/December/2011 at 11:19am

CBV wants a paystub, a hardship letter and some financial questionnaire filled out. My concern is that what happens if I send them all this info and they use it to acknowledge and reopen the debt for 6 more years without even trying to go with my settlement.

Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 04/December/2011 at 4:37pm

You said you made a payment in 2008. That would have reset the clock on limitation. If the bank requires that you provide details that substantiates your financial hardship, and as a condition in the settlement process, and you refuse to provide it, then you really aren't going to get anywhere here.

Posted By: TCrown
Date Posted: 05/December/2011 at 11:16am

After further digging today, this loan is for the non-guaranteed federal portion put up by CIBC. After escalating my call, I've been advised that CIBC still owns this debt but CBV is "acting on behalf" of them to collect it.

I did ask CIBC why they cannot settle it then with me since they are the original creditors and I was told that CBV is the only one you can talk to regarding settlements/payments etc.

They then put me thru to a manager named "carol fox" which sounds fictious and does not have an actual # just a mailbox to leave messages and she will return the call.

Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 05/December/2011 at 3:44pm

Risk loans are all unsecured student loans. I pointed that out to you I think in the beginning of this chain. CIBC is who you owe but the agency is the one acting for the bank, and thery are in control of what goes down unfrotunately. CIBC does not interfere. Going to CIBC is not going to get you anywhere unless the third-party agent has broken rules or actual law (and even then they do their best to distance themselves from anything that could get them into trouble).

All they are asking for is a pay stub and a completed financial questionaire from what you have indicated. What is your hardship here? It is clear there is the inconvenience of the student loan since it is blocking your ability with your bank to close a mortgage unless it is paid. Student loans are a HUGE inconvenience to everyone who has one with little to no ability to pay. But where is the hardship?

Posted By: TCrown
Date Posted: 07/December/2011 at 10:21am

k thanks for your advice. Just wanted your take on this matter. after further review of these CBV statements, I've noticed:

1) that not 1 cent of any payment has ever gone to principle and that CBV lists the interest as 5.5% or $48.75 a month. CBV says its because my payments go to monthly interest first then accrued interest then whatever is left if any goes to principle. that does not sound right at all. what do you think?

2) i've been in contact with a supervisor of CIBC, as well as the CIBC legal dept and CIBC ombudsman as I have esclated the issue. I have also requested under PIPEDA any documents, information etc sent to CBV and CIBC via registered mail.

3) after speaking to a contact of mine in the legal dept at Equifax, I have been told the following:

** My Equifax Credit Report which shows "Date of last activity" as November, 2008 is in error. Date should have originally been shown as the date when I originally defaulted with the CIBC. As per the legal contact, It very clear that the "Date of last activity" is the date when the debtor defaults with the original creditor, even if it is later paid to the original creditor or to a collection agency or sold to a debt buyer.

When the CIBC reported this debt to the credit bureaus and showed it as an I9, Bad Debt, Written Off, that should have been the "Date of last activity", which in this case would be 2000 in which would have been purged after 6 years and should not be currently listed on my bureau.

I was provided with this legality ----- >

The reporting of credit information to residents of Ontario is provided for by the Consumer Reporting Act, RSO 1990, Chapter C33 and more specifically Paragraph 9(3)(f) which in essence says that no derogatory or negative information ( i.e. loan defaults ) can be reported after 7 years from the date it occurred. The policy of both Equifax and TransUnion is to purge this information 6 years after the "Date of last activity".

What are your thoughts on this? I have now been given an avenue on how to get this resolved on my bureau with equifax and transunion, so ill let you know how that turns out.

Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 07/December/2011 at 2:03pm

Interest is paid first before anything with student loans.

The activity date showing alligns with your last payment as you put it in one of your posts, which is an activity.

The Consumer Reporting law is what counts. It is subject to interpretation though (as with all laws). I see your argument in that because the debt went into default well beyond 7 years, and because so it should be purged regardless of the acknowledgment in 2008.

Here is the bank's argument to yours though:

- The consumer reporting law cites the 7-year rule as a limitation period for allowing it to be reported. If there is no activity after the prescribed 7-years then the debt must purge. This is where the Ontario Consumer Reporting Act alligns somehow with the limitation of actions and proceedings act.

- The consumer protection law cites that no credit reporting body is allowed to report a debt that is "legally unrecoverable". That means "statute barred" or "false claim".

- Because your debt is legally recoverable by acknowledgment in 2008, CIBC may legally be permitted to maintain it's reporting of the student loan on the premise of your acknowledgement, which is the credit reporting industry's and law's definition of "activity" in this case.

Having a whole bunch of laws that pertain to one issue does create a high sense of ambiguity. I do see your argument and agree that Paragraph 9(3)(f) of the consumer reporting act is not ambiguous. But it doesn't matter what I think.

A ruling on it is what will solve the issue.

Posted By: TCrown
Date Posted: 07/December/2011 at 4:06pm

Also, on this CBV statement it shows was sent to collections on nov 23,2001. But I graduated on June 1, 2001. So for some reason CIBC already sent loan off for collection before my 6 months of interest relief was up and before they contacted me to set up repayment which is why I have requested documents from them.

CBV also told me they took over the file March 2003. So CIBC had another collection agency dealing with this in 2001 but don't seem to know who it was at this time.

Another thing I don't understand abt the interest, is that CIBC has this loan listed as a installment loan on credit bureau with payments of $106 being due. Which would indicate it was payment that would cover principle and interest just like an installment amount on a car loan. with that said, how is It I can make $50, $100, $200 and $500 dollar pymts over the course of years and not 1 cent goes to principle.

Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 08/December/2011 at 3:55am

Banks like to make money. They can do anythign they want it seems. They are certainly not accountable to anyone because if so, then they would have been removed from participating with student loans within the first 4 years.

what it looks like in your findings is that they caused you trouble just so they could make money. I am su5re youa re not the only one. This is how the financial commumnity preys on the consumer population.

Posted By: TCrown
Date Posted: 14/December/2011 at 1:36pm

Update:

So it looks like CBV has now been kicked out of the equation, after several escalations with CIBC and the Ombudsman, CIBC Executive Client Relations is now dealing with this matter.

I received a registered letter today from CIBC today from that department saying they have now investigated the matter and are willing to solve it they offered settlement of $11,000 from the $14.000 balance. due end of jan 2012. or they have a right to initiate ligitation.

The CIBC rep quoted these two laws as reference...

Ontario Limitations Act 2002, S.O. 2002, Chapter 24, Schedule B, Section 16 (1) as well as the Canada Student Financial Assistance Act, S.C. 1994, c. 28, Section 16.1 and 16.2

What light can you shed on this new info?

Also we've come to find out that CIBC was the only one reporting on the account including the date of last activity in 2008. we've found out that this is a "trade" account and CIBC has never reported the date of default on their end to the credit bureau which is a contravention of the Consumer Reporting Act.

We are waiting on further info from CIBC tomorrow, but wanted to know what you make of all of this.

Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 15/December/2011 at 2:41am

The Ontario Limitations Act does not apply in any case whereas the issue is a federal matter. Federal Law supercedes provincial law. Your CIBC loan is based on the federal program, that being the CSLP.

The reference to the CSLFA you were given is likely a repsonse to your argument of limitations, specifically the acknowldgement definitions in section 16.2. I don't understand what CIBC would cite the Ontario limitation act because the student loan is not a guaranteed Ontario student loan administered under OSAP. Like I said above, federal law supercedes provincial law if the matter is a federal one. I suspect the letter you received was written by Sonia Russo or someone in her quarters.

The reporting issue is no surprise to me. I se this all the time.

Johnny

Posted By: TCrown
Date Posted: 15/December/2011 at 6:05am

The letter I received is from a Mr. Clarence Layne (Director- Executive Client Relations of CIBC)

What should my response be to them? I already have the Consumer Reporting Act under my belt and am looking for a another angle or 2 before I respond.

Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 15/December/2011 at 12:21pm

He is a step or two above her.

Section 22 & 23:

False information

22. No person shall knowingly supply false or misleading information to another who is engaged in making a consumer report. R.S.O. 1990, c. C.33, s. 22.

Offences

http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/french/elaws_statutes_90c33_f.htm#s23s1" rel="nofollow - 23. http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca/html/statutes/french/elaws_statutes_90c33_f.htm#s23s1" rel="nofollow - (1) Every person who,

(a) knowingly, furnishes false information in any application under this Act or in any statement or return required to be furnished under this Act or the regulations;

(b) fails to comply with any order, direction or other requirement made under this Act; or

and every director or officer of a corporation who knowingly concurs in such furnishing, failure or contravention is guilty of an offence and on conviction is liable to a fine of not more than $25,000 or to imprisonment for a term of not more than one year, or to both. R.S.O. 1990, c. C.33, s. 23 (1).

If they are reporting an item that is not allowed to be reported, or is not allowed to be reported in the manner that it is currently reported, then it is considered false information.

Posted By: TCrown
Date Posted: 15/December/2011 at 12:57pm

Thanks so much. I was planning on writing back to him in response to this letter I received. And mentioning the Consumer Reporting Act, RSO 1990, Chapter C33 Paragaph 9(3)(f) as well as Section 22 and 23 as you've indicated.

Is there anything else or anything in particular I should say (wordage wise) that can resolve this into a quick conclusion.

Do you write these letters btw? for a fee? Let me know how to proceed. It would be greatly appreciated.