Archived Urgent Help Needed Posts

osap fraud

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Topic: osap fraud

Posted By: frustratedaunt
Subject: osap fraud
Date Posted: 04/January/2010 at 12:05pm

I need direction. I have a niece and nephew who are currently receiving osap based on the information their mother gave. I know without doubt that she did her information fraudulently because my kids don't qualify for osap based on our personal income level and if she had included their father (my relation) in the information, they wouldn't have gotten any help either. If I wanted to have this investigated anonymously, is this even possible? and who would I contact? I don't want the kids to end up in trouble; it isn't their fault they got stuck with this woman for a mother (and I use the term loosely). I am very frustrated by this situation.

Replies:

Posted By: katkat
Date Posted: 04/January/2010 at 6:44pm

The kids will be investigated also if they are over 18, and charged with fraud and the OSAP taken away, which then they would have to pay back or both the parents including your brother.

Under certain circumstances, I believe single parents can claim the single income. I dont know if this is the case here.

Posted By: frustratedaunt
Date Posted: 05/January/2010 at 11:23am

Thank you for the info. I will continue to investigate this but I don't want the kids to get into trouble so it may go nowhere anyway, as much as I hate how the system is being abused.

Posted By: bliss
Date Posted: 07/January/2010 at 9:15am

a few things

1. if the mother and father are separated or divorced then on the application they only need to put the income of one parent. If this is the case then it is completely legal and acceptable to put the mothers income only (or the fathers only)

2. there is absolutely NOTHING you can do to bring the mother to justice. The kids signed the forms and they are the only ones liable for fraudulent information. If you move forward with this you will be hurting the kids only, not the mother at all.

4. you cannot know "without a doubt" that she committed fraud just because her kids qualified and yours did not. Student loans are calculated on more than just income. Every persons situation is different and there is really no way at all for you to know why hers were accepted and yours weren't. There is simply NO WAY you can make such a judgment (especially one where you are accusing someone of criminal activity) based only on that fact alone.

4. It seems you are upset because your own children did not receive assistance and now you are trying to sabotage someone who did. Keep in mind that OSAP is not a mickey mouse operation, they have many many levels that investigate that all information obtained is correct. They don't just give out money because you say you need it and they don't just "assume" all the info you gave them is correct, they will actually verify this info.

5. trying to bring people down because of your own misfortune is crass and misguided. You should be happy that your nieces and nephews have the opportunity to get a higher education especially since they "got stuck with this woman as a mother". Also remember that these are loans and not "free money". they will have to repay every cent they received.

6. Understand CLEARLY that any action you take with affect them and only them and not their mother. You need to reflect on how much your relationship with your niece and nephew matters to you, because if you go through with this they will never forgive you. Take a step back and look at the situation.....are your really so upset that you would sabotage their education because of a vendetta you have with their mother?

Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 07/January/2010 at 9:37am

the mothers income will likely be verified through tax records.... It will all come out in the end. Bliss's points are correct.

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Administrator
Mark OMeara
Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain
https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024

Posted By: frustratedaunt
Date Posted: 07/January/2010 at 9:47am

Thank you for the info Bliss. I am not frustrated because my children did not get OSAP. I pride myself on having successfully put three children through post secondary education with a minimum of debt for each of them and I expect the fourth will do just as well. It is frustrating to me because I am watching my brother-in-law being tormented by this woman who has sabotaged every effort in his life to get ahead and get past their divorce which was 12 years ago. She has pushed him to the brink of suicide more than once and we have spent many hours on the phone trying to keep him together. But, that is another story altogether.

I will however let him know what information I have managed to find and perhaps that will ease some of the upset that he has over this subject. I certainly don't want to get anyone into trouble just because I didn't have adequate information before I made an accusation. This forum has been very helpful for that.

Thank you.

Posted By: katkat
Date Posted: 07/January/2010 at 9:49am

Another factor to consider is that whether you live at home or go away to school makes a big difference in the funding you get or are qualified for. It can mean the difference between getting $5,000 and $15,000 or whether you even get funding or not. And you dont know how much they got or got in laons v grants/scholarships/ to do that , you would have to see the loan papers, which I doubt you have. So they could be getting 2k loan, 5k grants as an example, so you dont know how much they are getting or what form of assitance they are getting. The loan part could be really minimal and if it is, they deserve the scholarships, and need the grants.

Also, if they get investigated for OSAP fraud, they will likely get expelled and not let into any other college. They would not be eligible for ANY scholarships or grants, not just those tied to OSAP. Boards and trustees just dont want to be associated with fraud in any way. They could go to jail, be denied jobs, and be hounded by collection agencies, or sued.

So if you want to ruin their lives and futures, ruin your relationship with them and their father, and look bad in the process, go ahead, report. And as an added bonus, if the reports are false and found to be malisious, you could still get sued and be criminally charged for making a false report. Leave it alone

Posted By: old hippy
Date Posted: 07/January/2010 at 10:29am

This is reminiscent of the welfare "rat-line" that was set up in the Harris days. Horrible. The system messes everyone up enough already...

Posted By: bliss
Date Posted: 11/January/2010 at 5:11am

frustratedaunt,

Thanks for verifying that they are in fact divorced. In this case she has not committed fraud. The mother was not required to include the fathers income.

My heart goes out to you and your family and i hope your brother in law is able to find some peace, but this is a no go....and trust me, from going through a similar experience years ago with my own parents, do no get the children involved......this will only make things worse for everybody.

I cannot understand though why your brother in law is so upset over this particular situation??? His kids are getting funding to go to school, who cares if their mother was the one who helped them fill out the forms...this situation is 100% about his kids and has barely anything to do with the mother.

my parents were divorced when i filed my osap and i used my fathers income only because he made less than my mother, and my mother was thrilled that i was able to get osap, even though she despises my father. i can understand the problems from years ago but i can't understand why he would be upset that his children received funding to go to school and get themselves an education, even if their mother helped them to get it?!?!

It's a very confusing story. You responded that this woman will not let him move on, but then why would he start a whole "situation" over his childrens student loans?!?!(something that is VERY positive for his kids) Isn't that the opposite of moving on? Is trying to find charges to press against the mother of his children moving on?? sounds more like retribution to me.

You may be very upset at this woman.....with good reason, but you and your brother in-law just created this HUGE drama about his ex-wife committing fraud.....to the point where you wanted to contact the authorities, when in reality SHE DID NOTHING WRONG in regards to the osap paperwork. Not including the fathers income is 100% legit when the parents are separated or divorced. It makes it seem like the brother in law is looking for anything to soak his ex wife with.

I have to wonder how many people you told that she was committing fraud. Do you realize that when you accuse someone of committing a crime with no proof which in the end they did not commit, that you yourself are committing a crime....slander?

i speak to you as the teen of the worlds messiest divorce and 15 years later they still hate and despise each other just as much as they did from day one. my parents threw ever accusation in the book at each other and it GOT THEM NOWHERE. If there's one thing i learned from that whole period of life is that there are ALWAYS two sides to every story and there are no innocent parties.
And when you're the child in this situation you do everything in your power NOT TO PICK SIDES. You love both your parents and you wont choose......so don't put them in a position where the adults make them feel like they have to.

and if he wants to move on.....then by all means MOVE ON!! Quite trying to find ways to get the mother of his children in trouble with the law.

sorry to sound like this but i was a teen in the middle of a nasty situation and i cannot stand to see people putting the kids in the middle in order to get back at each other or get each other in trouble. please for the love of the kids, do not pursue these things.

Posted By: frustratedaunt
Date Posted: 11/January/2010 at 10:53am

My brother-in-law is not opening up anything. What he got was a demand letter from his ex's lawyer dated the day his mother died no less (and yes, there was time for her to tell her lawyer to delay sending that letter by a couple of days just out of respect) telling him he owes HER $31,000 dollars for HER costs associated with the children's education. This woman charges her own children room and board and has since they were sixteen, even though she gets a more than generous child support cheque every month. It made all of us wonder if any of her actions are legal and above board. Hence, the request for more information. And please, people, this is not a quest for retribution on anybody's part. This is a family who does not get ANY information when it is requested and so is left to wonder just exactly what is going on. Ignorance isn't bliss for us and the more information we can get, even like this, the easier it is to live with what is going on, because at least we don't think something illegal is going on anymore. There was no information whatsoever on the "official" student aid sites and no real way find out who to contact to get information on how this system works.

I really don't need any more direction. All I wanted were facts, not a bunch of accusations. I will not be back to this site but for those who gave me real information, thank you.

Posted By: katkat
Date Posted: 11/January/2010 at 1:36pm

As for the this family gets no info, you should not get info, its not your business.

As for charging room and board, that's what they should do. Most parents send their kids off to college not knowing even to make mac and cheese let alone handle finances, how to budget. Would you send your kids off not knowing how to manage money and then come home after a few months or worse because they cant handle it?

Posted By: Iknowalotofstuff
Date Posted: 12/January/2010 at 11:38am

You see her as a villain. You see your brother as the victim. Her family probably sees her as the victim and your brother as the villain. Thats what happens when their is a family breakup.

The children are with their mother and not the father. She has won again. Your brother may be responsible for support. Her kids get student loans. She has everything. Your brother has nothing. She should suffer like he has??

How do we balance the playing field? We accuse her children (they got the loans) on the assumption they must have cheated to get an OSAP loan. Based on the mother's perceived economic success that you believe is at the expense pf her brother.

If they have cheated in getting a student loan, they will get caught and they will suffer the consequences. If they perceive that your brother is behind your turning them in, they may take it to be your brothers doing and punish him. You plan could backfire by alienating the children.

The law of natural consequences should apply her. You may think you are doing the government or your brother or the tax payers a service by stirring up a mess. I hope you can be honest with yourself and see that all you are doing is trying to get even for your brother. Maybe he should fight his own battles.

Maybe your efforts could be directed in helping your brother not attacking his ex.

I know you do not want to hear this. You were quite clear when you said you don't need direction. The vast majority of the people who responded to your post are against what you want to do. No one has posted information that will allow your to get them. The majority have condemned your actions. Maybe you should have second thoughts about what you want to do.

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wlb