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Bankruptcy Law News!

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Topic: Bankruptcy Law News!
Posted By: administrator
Subject: Bankruptcy Law News!
Date Posted: 20/December/2007 at 4:23am
BANKRUPTCY NEWS!
To quote http://www.student-loan-bankruptcy.ca/ "In a stunning shocker, on December 13, 2007 The Senate of Canada gave third and final reading to Bill C-12 (which contains the new student loan bankruptcy rules). The Bill has now passed both the House of Commons and the Senate, so the Bill is now law. The next step is Royal Assent, which is a mere formality, and is expected to happen any day now." The bill apparently recieved royal assent on Dec 14th... THIS LAW CHANGES THE 10 YEAR RULE TO 7 YEARS. Please note that this change does not become effective until a "COMING INTO FORCE DATE is set. For more info check out http://www.student-loan-bankruptcy.ca/

There is another bill on the table to change the 7 years to 2 years and initiate a hardship hearing - details at http://www.bankruptcy****/studentloans1.htm


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Administrator
Mark OMeara
Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain
https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024



Replies:
Posted By: tconley
Date Posted: 20/January/2008 at 4:26pm
So if I have loans older than 1999 will I be able to claim bankruptsy? I have 4 altogether-2 are Federal and my CIBC is quite old now....2 are prov. and one of the prov. ones is at least 7 years now...but is the calculation from the time of graduation? and if you went on to getanother degree-wil the old loans be timed with the new ones?  


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 21/January/2008 at 8:20am
Anyone can file an assignment in bankruptcy whenever they want. It is up to the trustee to live up to their responsibilities and bankrupt only the people who it really applies to. If you are asking whether or not you would be discharged, no one can tell you that. It is like going to a casino and asking the slots manager if the machine you are are thinkng about playing will pay out if you play it.
 
 


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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: Blue_Thunder
Date Posted: 24/January/2008 at 7:26am
Just a footnote to add to all of this. As a lot of people have heard, there is a senate bill on the go to get the now 7 year period down to two years with the option of a financial hardship hearing in dire situations for student loan debtors. I am not optimistic that senator Goldstein's (I think that is his name) attempt will work even if he can convince the majority of senators that the previous 10 year, now 7 year, rule is grossly unfair.

Sorry to be the Bad News Bear, but the reason for this is because any Senate Bill directly brought about by the Senate must be approved by the House of Commons and then get Royal Assent, the reverse process of which a Bill introduced directly by the Lower House has to be approved by the Senate and then get Royal Assent. As we all know, the Lower House and the Senate are co-equal.

As a result, do not expect the majority of Liberal and Conservative MPs to support the senate bill.

In other words, no matter what bills are introduced or who introduces them, all roads lead through the lower House and those majority of MPs who are totally opposed at granting us Student Loan debtors proper justice.

Let's just go out and file a class action lawsuit against the government for creating this sinister, profit making system that was doomed from the beginning, as well as blaming the failure of the system (ie. the defaults) on borrowers rather than the politicians who created the mess in the first place.

What we need is another Erin Brockovich or A Civil Action type of true story line to inspire us that if these events could be accomplished, then we can certainly do it to our own government. If anyone out there has not seen these two movies based on true stories, I highly recommend them for inspirational and motivational reasons.

Cheers!


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The greater access to higher education, as a result of student loans, has flooded the job market. Therefore, supply exceeds demand. Thus our credentials are not as valuable as, say, 30 years ago.


Posted By: battleweary
Date Posted: 24/January/2008 at 12:46pm
To further the "bad news" check out the "new" bankruptcy laws - 9 months of paying significant money for first time bankrupts, - if you have been bankrupt previously (even 20 years ago) you are looking at 36 months of huge payments (depending on income) before you can be considered for discharge, with no guarantees. Hope is dashed and there seems like there really is no way out. My advise to anyone. DON'T  stay in school. It is a lifetime poverty sentence. 


Posted By: lovecraft
Date Posted: 19/April/2008 at 6:06pm
OK I am no lawyer but upon investigations I found something interesting.  http://www.parl.gc.ca/LEGISINFO/index.asp?Language=E&query=5298&Session=15&List=ls#endnote45
According to this site the section of bill C-12 that concerns student loans is

6. Discharge of Student Loans( http://www.parl.gc.ca/LEGISINFO/index.asp?Language=E&query=5298&Session=15&List=ls#endnote45 - 45 ) (Clause 107(2))

and the information listed for coming to force is The provisions of Bill C-12 come into force on the date of Royal Assent, with the exceptions of clauses 1(1), 1(5)-(7), 3, 6, 9(3), 12, 13, 14(2), 14(3), 15(2), 15(3), 16(2), 16(3), 17(2), 19-22, 25, 31, 34, 35, 37, 42, 44, 46-48, 50, 51(1), 55-57, 58(2) and 67, which come into force on proclamation.

The point is that unless I am misreading the information, or grossly misunderstanding the fairly plain language the section of bill C-12 that concerns us all is already in force.  Any clarification on this would be much appreciated.  I seems straight forward to me though.




Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 20/April/2008 at 3:05am
1. It is not changed as of yet.
 
2. The issue is that you can "apply" to have your loan discharged. It does not mean that you will be discharged. If you judged as bankrupt, and there is no opposition, then discharge will happen. If you are truly not bankrupt, and are perceived or judged as using the insolvency system as a means frustrating the system, then a discharge is unlikely.
 
This is what people hqve to realize.


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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: lovecraft
Date Posted: 20/April/2008 at 4:24am
So.  Just to make sure I understand this correctly.  I went bankrupt several years ago, it has been more than 7 years since I was a full time student, I am supporting a family of 5 on PT income.  I can at this time see a lawyer to apply to have my student loans discharged under the new law?

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Many a fool has sought to oppose my diabolical will, only to find out later that they probably shouldn't have tried to do that


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 20/April/2008 at 11:31am
You have to file again, unfortunately. If your hardship carried extenuating circumstances, then it is worth a shot. However, no one can guarantee you a discharge. That is the other matter. It is all in the hands of whomever makes the ruling.


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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: lovecraft
Date Posted: 21/April/2008 at 5:20pm
Why would I have to go bankrupt again.... and I thought that the 7 year rule was automatic..... I went bankrupt about 4 years ago... should I not just have to apply to have it done now..... that is what my trustee said.... it was just the time we were unsure of.



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Many a fool has sought to oppose my diabolical will, only to find out later that they probably shouldn't have tried to do that


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 21/April/2008 at 11:46pm

The new change has not taken effect, and there is no automatic discharge, lovecraft. THe student loan provider is allowed to oppose the discharge, which the government will do in most cases, depending on your financial position. Who knows how long it will take. Your past bankruptcy did not involve the student loans. Therefore, you will likely have to file a new assignment.

So you all know - when you come a point when you can apply to have your student loans discharged under the insolvency act (section 178), it means just that. You can "apply" to have it or them discharged. It does NOT mean that you will be discharged. The act does not state that a discharge is automatic. However, if your life and financial circumstances are so bad that you will never be able to repay the loan back, then the chance of discharge is great. When it involves student loans, everything is open to examination by the opposition. Remember, the government has the right to oppose, and they do so religiously.


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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: cayt
Date Posted: 28/April/2008 at 4:53am

When your loans are in collection or when you can claim bankruptcy,  what can the governement or student loans collectors seize?   What if I own a 12,  000.00 mobile home - not the best but all I have as my primary residence for me and my son.  Can I lose this?  I am asking because I am currently in collections with both federal student loans and the BC student loans and should I lose this trailer we would essentially be homeless - I can't afford the high rents elsewhere. 

Also,  if an effort to work with student loans,  I have requested the forms to document my monthly statements.  In five months I have made three requests and have not yet received any documents.  Each time I phone they tell me they have mailed me the documents.  To date I have not received anything except nasty letters demanding payment immediately.  I am at my wits end and don't know what to do.  Every time I try to engage with student loans I never receive any documents.  When I had attempted to apply for interest relief,  I missed the deadlines waiting for papers.   How can this continue to happen.  I am so frustrated.



Posted By: akasnowflake
Date Posted: 28/April/2008 at 8:20pm
This is all good news to me! Im in my 7th year and was paying my student loans until I lost my job. Now on EI and have creditors calling more than 4 times a day! There's nothing I can do as I don't have an income that allows me to pay them. For months now agencies have been telling me to wait on this bill being passed......I can't wait for it to be over. My student loans are the only things on my credit!


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 29/April/2008 at 8:18am
Hi,
 
10 years from the day you have ceased to be a student. Unfortunately, what you are describing is a common occurence.
 
 
 


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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: gozonuts
Date Posted: 17/June/2008 at 3:04am
I am sorry to flog a dead horse, but this ten year period after you were a student, does this mean full time student , part time, or just taking one course?


Posted By: icemaiden129
Date Posted: 18/June/2008 at 7:39am

10 years means being a student at any time.  The best thing to do speak with your original loan source to find out when your last study date was, the 10 years would generally start from the dat after that.



Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 18/June/2008 at 12:57pm
Section 178 clearly states that you can apply to have your loan discharged 10 years from the day you ceased to be a full or part-time student. So, if you were a student yesterday and not today, the legislation is pretty specific. However, everythign is subject to interpretation. Maybe spend a buck and get obtain a ruling on this (?).


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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: stardustnf
Date Posted: 08/July/2008 at 10:59pm
Check out this news story....the new bankruptcy rule of 7 years for student loans was signed into law yesterday.

http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/legalpost/archive/2008/07/08/bankruptcy-law-changes-impact-rrsps-and-students.aspx - http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/legalpost/archive/2008/07/08/bankruptcy-law-changes-impact-rrsps-and-students.aspx

It's about time!



Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 09/July/2008 at 5:02am
It is good for those with extenuating circumstances, and who truly cannot contribute. However, you have to question the sales pitch of this article because there is no automatic discharge. It is telling people to rush out and see a bankruptcy trustee (which is what that industry is promoting). A free consultation results in thw bankruptcy sector telling you "oh yes, you definitely should go bankrupt". Let's face it, although change is good but the way this is written certainly does not offer consumer comfort or protection in an unwarranted filing of insolvency. The bankruptcy sector's concern is bankrupting people, and not teaching them how to avoid these proceedings. There is one thing that the bankruptcy secotr fails to deliver and that is the fresh start that they solicit to you. They really cannot give you that as it requires a lot of restorative or relationship developments, and that sector is not capable of providing it.
 
 The student loan provider can still oppose a discharge if a borrower is examined as being able to pay. These are areas that borrowers have to be cognizant of.
 
Johnny


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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 09/July/2008 at 7:45am
I also understand that the rules and regulations have not been published yet. I agree with Johnny and disagree with the article. There is no indication that its an automatic discharge.
 
But at least its seven years not 10.


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Administrator
Mark OMeara
Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain
https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024


Posted By: Aroha68
Date Posted: 09/July/2008 at 5:57pm

This is great news.. if it is in fact true.  My question, now that I can supposedly declare bankruptcy (it's been 8 years since I attended school or received $$ from student loans) is this... I recently married (4 years ago).  Will my husband's income come into play if I try to declare bankruptcy (he makes decent money)?  He wasn't even known to me while I was in school, and should not be responsible for my debts.  I am under the assumption that he will end up having to contribute to this bankruptcy, should I decide that is the route I will take.  Can anyone answer this?  Is it even worth the hassle?



Posted By: indeeptrouble
Date Posted: 10/July/2008 at 2:12am

I need immediate help .. I filed for bankruptcy 2 years ago and has been out of school since 2000.  My canada student loan has been forwarded to a collection agency.  They have contacted me on several occasions and they want to settle ofcourse.  I just want to know if I could be discharged from the loan based on the new Bill. plz help. 



Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 10/July/2008 at 4:22pm

This is a summary of changes from
http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/site/bsf-osb.nsf/en/br01782e.html - http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/site/bsf-osb.nsf/en/br01782e.html

Student Loans

The waiting period before which a student loan may be discharged is reduced from 10 years to 7 years. The period before which an application may be made to court to request a discharge on the basis of hardship is reduced from 10 years to 5 years.

The new time frame of 7 years will apply to all those who file for bankruptcy after the coming into force date and to undischarged bankrupts, i.e., student-loan borrowers who have become bankrupt but who have not yet been discharged.

Section 178(1.1) (the "hardship provision") will be available to all bankrupts, including those who have been discharged prior to the coming into force of the provision.

*********************************************************************
 
And from   http://www.parl.gc.ca/common/bills_ls.asp?lang=E&ls=c12&source=library_prb&P - http://www.parl.gc.ca/common/bills_ls.asp?lang=E&ls=c12&source=library_prb&Parl=39&Ses=2#discharge - http://www.parl.gc.ca/common/bills_ls.asp?lang=E&ls=c12&source=library_prb&P arl=39&Ses=2#discharge

 

Chapter 47 reduces the discharge prohibition period from 10 years to 7 years. Furthermore, the court may, on the application of the bankrupt, discharge the debt five years after the completion of studies, if the court is satisfied that the bankrupt has acted in good faith and will continue to

experience such financial difficulty that he or she will be unable to repay the debt.

 

Bill C-12 clarifies that when the new seven-year discharge period comes into force, it will not only apply to individuals who file for bankruptcy after that date, but also to those who have already filed for bankruptcy and have not been discharged. (The five-year waiting period will apply to all bankrupts, past, present and future.(47))

**********************************************************
From what I read here, if you have already been bankrupt and have been discharged from your bankruptcy, then you can apply under the 5 year hardship rule. If you have declared bankruptcy and have not been discharged, then the 5 year hardship, or the 7 year rule will apply depending on your situation.


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Administrator
Mark OMeara
Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain
https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024


Posted By: indeeptrouble
Date Posted: 11/July/2008 at 8:37am
thanks ..
one more question..do I need to hire a trustee  or a lawyer to aply for discharge or can I do that myself?? if so..where do I get info/ application ??
thanks again..


Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 11/July/2008 at 1:54pm

For the info or application, depends on the province.  You should probably contact your former trustee...



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Administrator
Mark OMeara
Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain
https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024


Posted By: old hippy
Date Posted: 11/July/2008 at 3:12pm
hmmm.....
 
Regarding bankruptcy - are RRSP's safe?  If someone had the "means to pay" their student loan - but less than 15 yrs. left to retirement...is this "extenuating circumstances"?  I'm getting a little tired of handing over $450 mth in interest.
 


Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 12/July/2008 at 6:38pm
Apparently one of the other changes was that RRSP's are safe although contributions in the prior 12 months might not be...

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Administrator
Mark OMeara
Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain
https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024


Posted By: ryderfan`
Date Posted: 15/July/2008 at 5:21am
SmileHello everyone, this is my first time here.  I am just wondering ... my husband has a huge student loan debt and we are entering our seventh year.  We are able to pay for all other bills and living expenses but just not the student loan.  Is there an option of filing for bankruptcy just on the student loans only?  We are wondering if that is an option for us in the upcoming year.  If anyone knows any information regarding this issue, I woudl greatly appreciate it. 


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 15/July/2008 at 10:33am
Bankruptcvy is not negotiable. You are either bankrupt or you are not. Everything has to be included.


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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: akasnowflake
Date Posted: 15/July/2008 at 11:02am
Actually I was informed that as long as the monies owing are not from a finanical institution and you have been making payments they don't have to be included in your bankruptcy....such as my car. Its financed through a company not an institution therefore I don't have to include it. I just got the call from my financial advisor today regarding my up coming bankruptcy. Wish there was another way.


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 15/July/2008 at 1:37pm
Your car loan is secured. That is a different matter. However, if you have a mortgage on a property, and there happens to be equity in it, then the properrty is at risk. Tell us your story. what makes you bankrupt?


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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: old hippy
Date Posted: 15/July/2008 at 1:40pm

Make sure you do your homework ryderfan - there's lots of bankruptcy sites on the web and the exemptions may vary by province.  Here's one site:

http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/site/bsf-osb.nsf/en/br01407e.html - http://strategis.ic.gc.ca/epic/site/bsf-osb.nsf/en/br01407e.html
 
I've been doing a little reading up on the bankruptcy thing myself....and I don't like the sounds of the "surplus income" payments - do they ever end?  It's consoling that you're allowed to keep your clothing and household pets though.
 
 
 


Posted By: tlstevenson2006
Date Posted: 16/July/2008 at 12:03pm

And that's not fair because I have good credit other than my student loan why should my credit card suffer because of the GOVERNMENT!!!!! A student loan which I just found out is put back which is what is said on the papers I got 6 months ago and I applied again didn't hear from them again for 6 months and another 2000 worth of interest!! This is not right I only need a solution to the student not my credit card!!



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Tracey Stevenson


Posted By: masy
Date Posted: 17/July/2008 at 5:10am
I now qualify to file. However I've been paying on this loan for 4 years now and have become adjusted to living a bit below my means. I am rebuilding my credit and establishing a relationship with my bank. As much as I would like to wipe out that debt and have the extra cash, I would be back to square one with my credit and have to start rebuilding from scratch. For me, it's not worth it to file but I know it's different for others. It depends on your financial situation and what your long-term finanical goals are.


Posted By: cayt
Date Posted: 17/July/2008 at 5:45am
On June 20th I declared bankruptcy for a variety of reasons including high student loan debt.  While my student loans are not included the nine month bankruptcy timeline does offer some relief.   I reside in Alberta and while I understand bankruptcy laws differ from province to province,  most are relatively the same.   I surrendered my truck because with the student loan payments I could not manage both.  I was not required to surrender my vehicle because there was no equity.  In Alberta you are required to surrender all credit cards as well regardless of a strong credit history.  As a single mom I am allowed to make up to 2200.00 per month without penalty.  Any surplus monies up to 1000 I make stipulates I return 50% of those monies to my trustee.   Anything over is divied up by the trustee to be applied to my debts.  I too had an impecable credit history with my vehicle loan,  credit cards,  mortages etc. but with such extensively high student loans could not manage all of the payments.  I am so frustrated over the student loan program I wish I had never gone to school with student loan funding.  These loans should have minimal interest with flexible repayment plans not be seen as a monetary gain for the government.  The stressors myself and many others have experienced is unsurmountable.  And while I know that my decision to declare bankruptcy is entirely my doing,  I do feel somewhat 'pushed' towards making this radical change in my life by those who were to offer support and opportunities.  Declaring bankruptcy is a personal choice and for me has offered and provided a great deal of relief.  But it isn't for everyone.  Changes are occuring and hopefully the governmental sectors will respond to this disastourous program. 


Posted By: mommyto4in08
Date Posted: 17/July/2008 at 8:32am
Regarding this new 7 year rule, can anyone say for sure whether or not using/exhausting Interest Relief sets the clock back?? I have heard yes and no?


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 17/July/2008 at 9:19am
If you have been out of school for 7 years. Interest relief is not an attendance issue. Good luck.


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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: mommyto4in08
Date Posted: 17/July/2008 at 9:47am
Thanks Johnny!Smile 


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 17/July/2008 at 2:07pm

The system must also be satisfied that you have acted in good faith, and are not seeking bankruptcy as a way to frustrate the system. Make sure you I's are all dotted, and your T's crossed. Don't go bankrupt unless you are truly bankrupt. Trustees in bankruptcy don't care abotu this. They just seek people to bankrupt. This causes A LOT of problems for people who are really not bankrupt, you see.



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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 17/July/2008 at 2:41pm
Here are some snippets of the BIA.
 
The changes are clearly made (from 10 years to 7) in respect of section 178, item gii which reads:

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/fr/ShowDoc/cs/B-3/bo-ga:l_VI::bo-ga:l_VII//fr?page=5&isPrinting=false#codese:178 -

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/fr/ShowDoc/cs/B-3/bo-ga:l_VI::bo-ga:l_VII//fr?page=5&isPrinting=false#codese:178 - (g) any debt or obligation in respect of a loan made under the Canada Student Loans Act, the Canada Student Financial Assistance Act or any enactment of a province that provides for loans or guarantees of loans to students where the date of bankruptcy of the bankrupt occurred

(i) before the date on which the bankrupt ceased to be a full- or part-time student, as the case may be, under the applicable Act or enactment, or

(ii) within ten (Now Seven) years after the date on which the bankrupt ceased to be a full- or part-time student; or

(h) any debt for interest owed in relation to an amount referred to in any of paragraphs (a) to (g).
 
Now, for those of you who think that there is an automatic discharge, you should read the following, as outlined in section 170.

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/fr/ShowDoc/cs/B-3/bo-ga:l_VI::bo-ga:l_VII//fr?page=5&isPrinting=false#codese:170-ss:_7_ -          

(7) A creditor who intends to oppose the discharge of a bankrupt on grounds other than those mentioned in the trustee’s report shall give notice of the intended opposition, stating the grounds thereof to the trustee and to the bankrupt at or before the time appointed for the hearing of the application for discharge.

 

 And ...

 

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/fr/ShowDoc/cs/B-3/bo-ga:l_VI::bo-ga:l_VII//fr?page=5&isPrinting=false#codese:170_1 - - 170.1 (1) The report prepared under subsection 170(1) shall include a recommendation as to whether or not the bankrupt should be discharged subject to conditions, having regard to the bankrupt’s conduct and ability to make payments.
 
And ...

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/fr/ShowDoc/cs/B-3/bo-ga:l_VI::bo-ga:l_VII//fr?page=5&isPrinting=false#codese:170_1-ss:_2_ -

(2) The trustee shall consider the following matters in making a recommendation under subsection (1):

(a) whether the bankrupt has complied with a requirement imposed on the bankrupt under section 68;

(b) the total amount paid to the estate by the bankrupt, having regard to the bankrupt’s indebtedness and financial resources; and

(c) whether the bankrupt, if the bankrupt could have made a viable proposal, chose to proceed to bankruptcy rather than to make a proposal as the means to resolve the indebtedness.
 
And ...

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/fr/ShowDoc/cs/B-3/bo-ga:l_VI::bo-ga:l_VII//fr?page=5&isPrinting=false#codese:172-ss:_2_ - (2) The court shall on proof of any of the facts mentioned in section 173

(a) refuse the discharge of a bankrupt;

(b) suspend the discharge for such period as the court thinks proper; or

(c) require the bankrupt, as a condition of his discharge, to perform such acts, pay such moneys, consent to such judgments or comply with such other terms as the court may direct.
 
So, please think before you take the dive and make sure there is water in the pool!
 
 
 


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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: mommyto4in08
Date Posted: 17/July/2008 at 2:44pm
Johnny, thanks again for the great advice! I am reviewing my options carefully, there aren't that many in my current financial state. I am presently contemplating this new 5 year hardship rule also. Would you happen to know if this is also considered a bankruptcy? If so, does it clear all loans held with banks/Gov't?
 
Again, thanks for the reply, I really appreciate it!


Posted By: SeansW
Date Posted: 30/July/2008 at 3:58am
I'll try to keep this brief because my story isn't much different from most of the others that I have read here. In November of 2007 I completed a consumer credit proposal which included the federal portion, provincial portion and risk portion of my student loans. My end of study date was April of 1998. Which means that I completed my proposal prior to the ten year rule and the remainder of the debt was not discharged. CBV Collections started calling me for the provincial portion when I began my new job just a little over three months ago. It's pretty obvious that my SIN was a big flag. Of course they want over $10,000 and they want it all now. We did the whole song and dance about getting a bank loan to consolidate my debt and allow them to get their commission faster. I actually took the time to speak with an uncle of mine and pitch the idea to him. We are very close, but he's not a wealthy man and he feared that I would just be providing them with another person to bleed. Anyway, I'm fortunate to be working in a reasonably well paid job. And I have offered them about ten per cent of the total amount plus 36 monthly payments. Previously they said that they would only accept the entire amount owing. And the minimum allowable payment would be $618 per month, which they didn't even want to discuss. To my surprise a representative called me (the auto dialer calls every day) and she accepted my payment proposal. The problem is they couldn't put it in writing. I insisted that it must be in writing. On the phone they were very careful to agree to my payments but came short of saying that at the end of the 36 months the balance would be clear. Then yesterday I got another call. Yeah, sure! Let's get this done. Can I fax you the agreement? How soon can you send those checks? Then today I get another call. We have no such letter. We aren't allowed to put it in writing. The ministry guidelines do not allow us to put it in writing or send a letter agreeing to payment schedules The whole amount is due now. Have you ever filed a financial questioniarre?

So this is the situation; I do not have assets anywhere equal to the amount owing. Through direct payments to the Bank of Nova Scotia (after leaving one college and before beginning another) through collection agencies and a consumer credit proposal I have paid off Three times the amount I borrowed for my education. Granted not all of the money I paid into the consumer credit proposal actually went to my creditors. The trustee does take fees from the monies. And still they won't accept a reasonable payment plan (with ten per cent paid upfront) to clear off the balance!

Fortunately I have spoken to a lawyer and I have representation. But why are they being such idiots about this? I'm offering to pay! Just put it in writing.


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 30/July/2008 at 7:00am
You are going to need some help with this one. Call me if you want that help.
 
Johnny


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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: SeansW
Date Posted: 30/July/2008 at 7:15am
Thank you Johnny, but I have a lawyer and they are handling this. I just really enjoy this forum and wanted to share my experience with others.


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 30/July/2008 at 8:06am

Sorry bout that.

Traditionally, collection agencies are not permitted by their clients to issue letters like this. You see, the debt is in default and a demand debt. They will not put themselves in a position whereas they cannot approach you to pay in full at any time. The thing is that a collection agency does not have to agree to accept any arrangements unless their client instructs them to do so. In your case, it appears you owe the Ontario government or Scotiabank (?). They may or may not respond to your attorney, other than that the debt is due in full at all times. If you are gainfully employed, and the collection agency feels that you can pay a certain amount, they will raise that argument and take it to whoever you owe for review.
 
Your attorney is obviously going to raise the argument and try to get you what you want. However, you have to step outside the box and see through the lens that they are looking through - at you. If they do not want to accept the arrangement, then thatis their decision. No one can force them to accept, you see.
 
Just be careful in your approach to this. Don't give them any reason to make political statements or examples of you. If they turn around and start proceedings, you will find yourself spending lots of money.
 
 


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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: SeansW
Date Posted: 30/July/2008 at 9:46am
Hey Johnny,

I understand what you are saying. My offer is sincere, but my lawyer also feels that if they are declining a reasonable settlement it may help my case to file a motion under section 178 to have the debt discharged as part of the consumer credit proposal which I completed. Worse case scenario we have a settlement hearing and we work out a payment schedule that isn't really too much different than what I have offered. I'm trying to avoid bankruptcy because I do have a job and I would like to repair my financial situation. It's still not a fantastic paying job. I work for a not for profit organization and it is terribly unlikely that I'm going to get a huge promotion with a big raise. Those kind of positions just aren't available at my company. I can't reasonably expect to improve my earning potential without upgrading my skills and education. And again with this debt I don't have the means to do that. In some ways it is cheaper for me to declare bankruptcy and pay the difference between my income and the allowable personal expenses under the bankruptcy act for 9-12 months. But I am an honest debtor and want to resolve this as best as possible without resorting to bankruptcy.

Hopefully this is resolved soon and I can look back at this as the decade that the government and collections agencies made my life miserable.


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 31/July/2008 at 2:16am

I am aware of what the argument could be. However, like I said, you have to step outside of the box and have a peek at things through their lens. That's all. They have to be satisifed that the amount you are offering is all you can afford. If you owe the government of Ontario, this is going to be difficult. A section 178 is not granted just because a creditor is not willing to settle. However, demonstrate that the loan default was erroneous, and that you have suffered because of the system's failure, then you have a better argument. Anyway, at the end of the day, bankruptcy is never a cheaper way of dealing with a financial problem because it carries far more hard costs to you in both short and long term.

Regarding settlement issues, the first thing they will look at is your financial capacity, and those particulars. Then it moves from there. If the creditor feels that accepting an offer is the best option, then they will do so. However, sometimes they decline in despite of, especially if they feel that you (or your attorney) demonstrates agressive behavior, such as being to pushy. They only appreciate attorneys who work for them, remember. If you hire one, the first thing the creditor tends to  "assume" is that you are paying $400 per hour. That is one of their bias factors.
 
Best of luck and I hope this works out for you.
 


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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: SeansW
Date Posted: 31/July/2008 at 3:05am
I appreciate what you are saying. My lawyer has asked me for a detailed employment history and we have already discussed the financial hardships which I faced prior to entering college and the years since I left. There are many factors in my favour. Student loans were my only option. My father left when I was very young and my mother was deemed an unfit parent. I was in foster homes when I was young and eventually was placed in the custody of my maternal grandmother who was on a fixed income. I left my programs due to financial hardship and spent many years in low paying jobs outside of my field of study. I paid a portion of my student loans between leaving my first college and starting my second. I paid large amounts through collection agencies for several months before entering a consumer credit proposal. I have never taken on any other kind of debt. Not a car loan, mortgage, lease, credit card, line of credit or even deferred payment on furniture or electronics. I am completely willing to make significant monthly payments and have acted in a forthright manner. My lawyer has explained that my current income is a major factor against me. I'm single with no dependents and make a fair wage. Which is why I would be very happy to settle. I'm not looking for a get out of jail free card. I'm looking for an end date. Something that says "Hey you still have to pay more, but this is almost over". I'm very aware that many people who declare bankruptcy do it not once but twice or three times. And that isn't a pattern that I want to set for myself. My goal is to retire this debt and move to Europe. It's difficult for me to move forward without some sort of end date. Of course I would never flee to avoid my responsibilities.


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 31/July/2008 at 3:43am
"I am completely willing to make significant monthly payments and have acted in a forthright manner."
 
This would present an obstacle in your argument for discharge in the event it has to go that route, would it not? You cannot say to the court that you are able to make substantial monthly payments and expect them to grant you a discharge if they refuse to accept.
 
This is my opinion any way.
 
Keep us all posted. I am very interested in seeing how this all works out.
 


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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: SeansW
Date Posted: 31/July/2008 at 6:47am
You might be correct. However, doesn't it go in my favour that I am making reasonable efforts to pay the money and yet they still insist of full payment when it is not possible, or will only accept monthly payments far beyhond my means for an indefinite period without applying the payments to the principle?

CVB Collection Services says the minimum payment which they will accept is $618 per month. And this will not make a dent in the principle. Assuming that under the consumer credit proposal that I completed the risk portion and federal portion of the claims are still two thirds of the original claim, I still owe an additional $10,000-12,000 on top of what CBV is collecting for the Ontario portion. So if I make monthly payments of $1,236 I will spend over half of my take home pay to credit agencies and be no further ahead in repaying the total debt. My personal assets are well below $22,000. I'm about $20,000 short! Despite having a monthly take home pay of approximately $2,200 I fall into the legal definition of bankrupt. My monthly expenses and  debt exceeds my income. My total debt exceeds my assets. This debt will cause me continued financial hardship. As well I will not have the means to improve my skills and education, make personal savings, invest monies for future expenses including dependents.

When I say that I am willing to make considerable payments to retire this debt I'm not saying that it would be done easily. Or that I can continue to maintain this debt without leaving myself vulnerable to market changes and employment instability.


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 31/July/2008 at 7:45am

For one, if you cannot pay the full amount that they are demanding in one lump sum payment, all you have to do is have your attorney issue a letter (signed and stamped) to that effect. They will back off. As for the payment application, it is written in the agreement that payments you make are applied to any interest outstanding. That is the way it is for millions of Canadians who in the same pickle with student loan debt. This is how they make their money (ROI in a sense).

Coping with and paying student debt in Canada - today is never easy. The system is what it is. The costs are set by the schools and the powers that be funds you (non-refundable I might add). They feel that by doing this they are helping Canadians, and quite obviously - they are in that regard. However, they do not help people who are not able to pay them back! So, the assistance they provide really only benefits them.
 
Keep us posted.   
 


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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: scoobydoo
Date Posted: 03/August/2008 at 1:40am
Another small clarification please Smile

If I have already gone bankrupt and been discharged except the student loans can I now apply to do so without filing for a new bankruptcy?  Assuming the 10 or or 7 year rule applies.  Or did filing for bankruptcy kaput everything?  Thanks


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 04/August/2008 at 9:22am
Call your bankruptcy trustee and ask them. Ultimately, if you are able to contribute towards your student loans, you are surely wasting your time. However, if you can demonstrate that you are destitute, unemployable, disabled (financially and physically), or have been suffering from hardship with extenuating circumstances for a very long time, then you would be justified in doing so.
 
Remember, simply sayng that you can't afford to pay anything does not demonstrate hardship. If that were the cases, everyone would be bankrupt. You must 'demonstrate" hardship and prepare yourself to provide all supporting documentation or evidence of it. This is what demonstration means.
 


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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: SeansW
Date Posted: 25/August/2008 at 10:09am
I received an e-mail from your office  but I haven't received a response to my reply. I would like to begin negotiating a payment schedule for my student loans.


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 25/August/2008 at 1:22pm

Write to me from the web site http://www.cfwgroup.ca - www.cfwgroup.ca . Click on the "contact us" tab and connect with me that way. Or, simply call me at 902-835-1210.



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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: DBforgiveness
Date Posted: 08/September/2008 at 12:25am
I think I have some understanding as to what is taking place.
 
My question is that I am a single mother of 2 with another I would have to pay support for if I wasent on social benefits. 
I have no credit card debt, I only have student loan debt.
 
After inquiring about my OSL (provincial) I was about to settle?
When I inquired about my CSL(federal) the bank said the government had it and to deal with the collection agency.
 
I got a letter from the agency that says the bank...so I called the Government to find out
what they had on file..They had my name no address however no outstanding debt either...
The Bank was untruthful they have no been paid out for this and I believe any arrangements made with them will only allow them to file the remaining balance with the government to insure they get as much as possible...
 
 
Has anyone encounted this before...expecially when filing bankrupcy...which is what I think Im going to do I cant afford to make monthly payments Im not working and my children are not able to go into child care because of health reasons.
 
However anyone who is working and is able to make payments should file a consumer propsal if they are able to locate all 3 portions of their student loan.
 
Anyways Should I still file bankrupcy I've been out of school since 1998, Single mother 2 kids (possible child support in future) on social assistance and unable to return to work for at least 4yrs at the most.


Posted By: OrlosGirl
Date Posted: 08/September/2008 at 3:44pm
So if I took out my student loans between 1994 and 2000, I can't use this new law to file bankruptcy?
 
 


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Trying to do everything He tells me. (John 2:5)


Posted By: DBforgiveness
Date Posted: 10/September/2008 at 7:40pm

Yes, I think 200 was your last period of study its now 2008...thats about 8 yrs right...and the law says out of school for 7 yrs right!!!

 


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 11/September/2008 at 1:29am

It is not about "when" you can file for bankruptcy. It is "when" you can apply to have your student loan discharged. Just because you go bankrupt, and 7 years has passed since you finshed studies, there is no guarantee that your loan will be discharged. An application for discharge can be opposed, and with student debt, that appears to be the result.  m told that if you can demonstrate to the one adjudicating the case that you are experiencing hardship with extenuating circumstances, and cannot pay in the near future, and/or cannot contribute anything in the long-term, then your chances of discharge are better. However, simply saying that you cannot afford to pay it now (or ever) without any demonstration that supports this will trigger opposition.

DB, from what you are describing, you are in hardship. The best thing for you to do would be to talk to the superintendant of bankruptcy office in Ottawa and ask him to advise you. This way the information you receive comes right from the horse's mouth. That office s required to provide the public with adequate informtion, and also oversee and police the private groups that administer this program.

Johnny

 


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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: OrlosGirl
Date Posted: 11/September/2008 at 7:31am
An order of discharge does not release the bankrupt from
 
(g) any debt or obligation in respect of a loan made under the Canada Student Loans Act, the Canada Student Financial Assistance Act or any enactment of a province that provides for loans or guarantees of loans to students where the date of bankruptcy of the bankrupt occurred
 
Unfortunately from what I understand, student loans taken out under CSL and CSFA are NOT elligible for this seven year discharge law.
 
DB you and I both have to wait the ten years...Cry


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Trying to do everything He tells me. (John 2:5)


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 11/September/2008 at 10:37am

YOu should call the Supie of BAnkruptcy in Ottawa and find out for sure if it is in effect.



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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: Angela
Date Posted: 15/September/2008 at 4:13pm
ok...  so this is a good one for all of you. Get a drink and sit down. This is a long one... I could shorten it, but it wouldn't make for as good a reading...
 
First the whole university/college thing was a joke. I went to a counsellor within the "Hallowed Walls Of University" to find out how to become a teacher. She talked me into taking an agriculture diploma instead... how? Don't ask. I was naive. I do not wish to remember that fault of my character... Wink But, I have since found out the university/college was going to lose the agriculture program if they didn't get more people to sign up for  it...
 
So, this was in May of 1995. In June of 1995 I participated in a "getting to know the student loans program and how to apply for one" session. The financial advisor told us at that time that a Student Loan will NEVER affect a persons Credit. Yeah I know. ROFLMCLAO. What can I say??? Naive... Embarrassed
 
So, I went to the credit union and gave them my completed form, as at that time you had to request a student loan from your financial institution. They, of course agreed.
 
Ok... so sometime in the fall of 1995 the student loan policies were changed. I... being naive... didn't realize this and kept on happily applying for student loan continuation as I was still taking courses. (this comes into play later) I completed 5 years of University/college in three years... because back then you could do that... as long as you were willing to take an average of 14 courses per semester. I was and I did. And I maintained an average GPA of 4.0... Big%20smile
 
Then hardship fell. Twas the student loan program that caused it too... they decided to audit me. They sent me this info in June of 1997 and asked for some forms to be sent back. I got the forms together, and mailed them. In early august I called them to find out how things were going as I started school in september... They had "not received" the forms that I had sent. So I got their fax number. I gathered up the forms again and faxed them. I waited a week before I called them. They did "not receive" them either. Ok. I took a deep breath and went to a gov't office. Asked them to fax them for me. They did. I waited a week... I am now in september and have had to borrow my tuition from my mother... I called them. They still have "not received" my forms. GRRRRRRRR.... So, I again faxed them from my mps office. I waited a week... guess what??? they received them. But it will take at least 6 weeks to finalize the process.... To make a long story short... they finalized the process a week into the january semester. I couldn't pay for my courses when I needed to, so I was unable to finish my last semester... Consequently... I can not make the money that I should be making because I did not get my two dips and one cert. Which was THEIR fault, not mine.
 
So, a few years later, 2003, I wanted student loans off my back. I was disabled and could not pay my student loans, and couldn't before I became disabled because I was not making the money I should have been making if I had been able to finish University/College as scheduled...  So, I went to a local bankruptcy company... I won't tell you who it was as they are well known as your local bankruptcy company...
 
The bankruptcy trustee listened to my issues. I was behind $5000 in debt, not including my student loans. The trustee told me that the best option I had, to get out from under this  debt (student loans) was to declare bankruptcy, then wait my full 10 years after my last day of school and apply to have my student loans set aside. Not knowing any better... (there is that Naiveness again) I listened to her, and applied for bankruptcy. I had to pay it off at a reasonable $100/mth for 24 months. In 2005 I was discharched. So, I paid them $2400 to become bankrupt. This is now 2008. At $100/mth I would have paid off all my creditors... except student loans. I would have been in exactly the same situation as I am in now... except I wouldn't be bankrupt!
 
As a person who is bankrupt, the hardships really have only just begun. I can not get a mortgage... I can not get a bank loan... I can not even get a monthly plan on a silly cell phone! I can get a credit card... IF I send them $300-$1500 to secure the credit card and they will hold that security for me until I cancel my credit card. At which time they will pay back the $300-$1500 WITHOUT the interest that it would have accrued.
 
Now, as you know, in these times, EVERYONE and their dog needs a credit card. Just to rent a carpet shampooer from your local grocery store requires a credit card to hold against any damages incurred. So, I have to PAY for the privelage of getting a credit card with REALLY high interest rates.... which would put me right back in debt again.
 
So, is bankruptcy your only option??? or is it even an option??? with what I know now... a very resounding NO! But... that is my experience, and my experience only. Once you have declared bankruptcy, it will not get better! Just the creditors are off your back. That's all. It isn't a fresh start... or a new one. It just means you can answer your phone.
 
And for all of you who get calls from collection agencies??? They are mostly based on auto dialers. Just pick up the phone and hang up immediately. This will register as a wrong number with the auto dialler and the phone calls stop. I am not suggesting that you should not pay back your creditors... just telling you how to give yourself some time to make some payments...


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Dance In The Sunshine


Posted By: bridgyw34
Date Posted: 17/September/2008 at 8:15pm
Ok so here's my story...short version anyway. By the way, I am so glad to find posts from folks who are in similar situations as mine. I finished my BA in 1998 (5 years, full loans). I was unable to find work to afford my loan payments so was faithfully applying to interest relief every 6 months (I had a child right after graduation, so wasn't really working much). So in 2001 I went back to community college for a Pharm Tech diploma and accrued even more student loan debt, but this time it was through the prov and fed gov'ts, not the banks. Anyway, I was still not making enough money to pay the loans, so I was back to interest free relief. Things were going well until my spouse at the time switched jobs right around renewal time. There was some discrepancy with his paystubs...long story short, the govt lenders said that he made too much that one month, refused the interest relief. The rough part was is that the most previous loans were quite small and I had no trouble making the monthly payments. It was the loans from my degree which were unaffordable...$40 000 with a $10/hr job. But because the student loan lenders had changed, if the prov and fed govt lenders refused my interest relief, they would not forward it to the banks where the big loans were and I was not permitted to bypass them and send it my self. Anyway, one by one my loans went into default, creditors phoning, all that jazz. I was working full time, had a 5 year old child and another due in a couple of months...It was all quite overwhelming.  I finally contacted a trustee and I filed a consumer proposal in April 2005 which ends in April 2010 and pay $300/month. Now if I could get some input on the discharge possibilities with the new 7 year rule...the proposal was solely my student loans with a total debt of 
 $56 000.  I am now a single parent with a take home income of approximately $2200 plus child support (not sure if it counts as income in this case). I know I am not in a hardship situation...I support my family fine, but there would be no way I could pay $40000 straight up in 2010 when the proposal ends. Anyway, any info would be helpful. Also anyone know exactly how this 5 year hardship rule would apply to my case?? Thanks Smile


Posted By: Angela
Date Posted: 18/September/2008 at 10:12am
Ok. So I got the rundown of how to get your student loans out of your hair... BUT only if you have gone through bankruptcy. First, you have to have used all your debt reduction and interest relief options within the system. After you have done that, if you have already declared bankruptcy, then you can ask your trustee to apply to have your student loans, both provincial and federal, included in your bankruptcy. My trustee says that additional application to the court for this procedure does cost about another $500 at this time, or you can go through a lawyer who specializes in this stuff.
 
Am I right Johnny?


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Dance In The Sunshine


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 19/September/2008 at 3:13am
I didn't know that the supie's office was a hair salon LOL  The most difficult part of the application is the opposition that follows by the crown's appointed representative that is assigned to attend these hearings. Ads for costs, well ... be prepared. Any lawyer can argue on your behalf. It is not something that requires any specialized designation. It is all based on facts and points as to whether or not someone can or should continue to repay.

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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: bridgyw34
Date Posted: 19/September/2008 at 5:26am
Thanks for the replies...but I am still slightly confused. When I filed my consumer proposal it already included my student loans...actually that's all it included, I had no other debt.  So do I need to file for bankruptcy as well once my proposal is finished in order to have my debt cleared? Over the five year period I will have paid $15000 towards the loans, not including the trustee fees on top of that. Would that count as me making a reasonable effort to pay my debt? This whole situation is very overwhelming and confusing. When I filed the proposal I was 9 months pregnant at the time and I wasn't thinking too clearly. That's why I am asking all these questions now. It seemed like a quick fix to the creditor harrassment at the time.


Posted By: Angela
Date Posted: 20/September/2008 at 7:36am
Have you used up all your debt reduction? up to 26,000 over a 3 year period. And you can reapply to get interest free on your loans. You need to have used that up as well. After you have used both those up, you MAY be eligible for hardship, IF you qualify. The maximum amount you are allowed to earn should be able to put you in the right category, however this is something that Johnny should answer as he is far more qualified to answer as correctly as possible. Meaning... things change as fast as the tide, it seems.

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Dance In The Sunshine


Posted By: DBforgiveness
Date Posted: 20/September/2008 at 5:22pm
I also am considering a consumer Propsal however my main question is
Because my loan is prior to 1999 the bank holds my loan CSL...when I spoke with the bank they said that the government hand already paid out the loan...
The government web site says any loan made prior to 1999 is handled by the bank...
Does that mean any loss is fully covered by the bank and cannot be recovered (ie unpaid portion is then paid by the government, leaving me with a bill still to pay)
If this is the case bank-o makes sense...
 
Im going to call Ottawa for more info                Thanks Johnny...
 
I spoke with a trustee that told me to come in to discuss bankruptcy...however I know they are trying to sell me a service...If I can aviod it that would be good...otherwise my financial situation is not going to change for a long time...thats only going to allow the interest to be compounded.
 
The NSLC has no debt on file just my name (ie. no $$$$ attached)


Posted By: DBforgiveness
Date Posted: 20/September/2008 at 5:41pm
I want to ask you before you applied for bankruptcy could you have applied for any of the things that you couldnt get while bankrupt (ie car, mortgage, etc)
Most likely not...re-establishing your credit after being discharged means following up with the Credit reporting agencieds to see that it is no longer listed because if it is then it will be hard for you...No Credit is a just as bad as Bad Credit....
They say in order for you to re establish your credit and for it to be list to the credit bureau you need at least 2 forms of credit...a secured card ( even though it is not gaining interest _ is a good start....in 6mon-12 months as long as the card is in good standing apply for another card with a low limit....if you have friend/family that caN HELP...APPLY AS A SECONDARY CARD HOLDER...I know very little about credit and Just want to learn more about bankruptcy/consumer propsal....Is it 7 years from the time you are discharged or is it once you filed bank-o is that when your time starts?


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 21/September/2008 at 4:40am
Interest on student loans does not compound. If anyone has told you that it is untrue.
 
Let's take a perspective approach here ...
 
Establishing credit is not the issue. It is the establishment of relationships in the financial community that will get you where you need to be. Bankruptcy severely complicates this as you now carry a new identity, of which is characterized negatively by financial community.
 
How does securing a credit card get you your "credit back"? How does being a supplimentary cardholder on an account do the same? It does not work that way. I suppose someone in the bankruptcy and debt pooling industry has to tell you something, but that is very 18th century advice. Is having a secured credit card a relationship? IN a very small way, yes. However, it is VERY limited, and gives you no benefit  "outside that box". Does "supplimentary cardholdership" build you a relationship? Sure, with the one who owns the account but not the financer or credit grantor of that product.  You have to see through the lens that the financial community sees through. Then, you would be better equipped.
 
Here is one way to look at this - If you are bankrupt, then getting credit again really shouldn't be an issue. If you cannot see yourself contributing to your bad debt anytime in the future, how do you see yourself contributing to repaying new credit accounts? What you are sayng here is that you rely on credit to live (which is an unfortunate fact of life for an awful lot of people). Relying on credit to live is what the financial community promotes. That is the only way it can harness the consumer market and force it's loyalty. You are certainly not alone, DB.  
 
 For student loans, all you have to do is demonstrate your inablity (if you truly have no ability) and they can be set aside. Sometimes people recieve resistance by the recovery sectors when tryng to demonstrate this, but if that happens, there is help for those who need it.   
 
If one cannot pay a debt, and goes bankrupt only to go out and attempt to acquire new debt immediately or soon after discharge, that is odd behavior. However, the way the financial community views the consumer market is extremely negative, and that does bring about desperation caused by hopelessness in the consumer community.


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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: bridgyw34
Date Posted: 21/September/2008 at 6:14am
I tried to apply for debt reduction...but because all my loans were in collections, I could no longer apply for  interest relief, therefore not eligible for debt reduction. Does anyone know if there are any ways of getting debt reduction once your loans are in collections? Johhny any info? My main concern is that I don't necessarily want to dump my debt, but want to be able to make it manageable once the proposal is done in 2010. From what I am reading on here, it sounds like I will have creditors hounding me at that time unless there is a discharge of my debt and that the creditors don't work out any manageable deals with repayment. I guess I am trying to make a plan of action before the proposal is done.


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 21/September/2008 at 8:49am

DDR - no.

You should ask your bankruptcy trustee to help you out here. Afteral, you are paying them thousands of dollars as it is. Unfortunately, I cannot do it for free. It will take time to really strategize and address the loans properly.


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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: Angela
Date Posted: 22/September/2008 at 8:57am
If you were in University/College and got a student loan BEFORE 2000, you still may be eligible for interest relief and debt reduction. You will need to call the student loans offices to find out.
 
Most of what you need to know can be found on the Canada Student Loans and Grants website. However... it isn't all applicable or as easy as it says it is...
 
If you got a student loan AFTER 2000 then you need to be in touch with the NSCLS... I think that is what it is... because it doesn't apply to me, I am totally unsure of the acronym.


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Dance In The Sunshine


Posted By: DBforgiveness
Date Posted: 23/September/2008 at 4:56pm
I think I've seen that info...However there are some restrictions ie from CanLearn
 
Your loan must not be in default. That means it must not be in collection with the Canada Revenue Agency or another collection agency. Borrowers who participated in bankruptcy-related events on or after May 11, 2004 are no longer restricted from receiving Debt Reduction in Repayment, as long as they meet all other eligibility criteria for Debt Reduction in Repayment.
 
Now my question to Johnny is does this mean that if I filed Bankruptcy that I would still be responsible for the CSL portion of my student loan?
It also says that you need to speak with the financial inst that has your loan if before 2000 for any type of forgiveness.


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 24/September/2008 at 2:07am

You are always responsible for your debt. Can you be more clear on this, perhaps? In any event, make sure that your loan is current before you go bankrupt. If you remain current (meaning not in default), and the systerm defaults you while engaged in bankruptcy proceedings, make the argument and make it stick using the legislation. System failures do occur. Read through this site. It is loaded with descriptions of them.



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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: DBforgiveness
Date Posted: 25/September/2008 at 2:36am
When I say responsible I understand that I should always have the intent to pay my bills.
 
My question to clarify things is
 Is the CSL (Federal) portion in bankruptcy?
 
I also understand that there are 3 portions Provincial, Federal, Bank risk... to some OSAP loans
 
I am attempting to locate all 3 but it seems that They (my OSAP creditors) make it almost impossible to locate all 3.
 
Is this because they want to make it difficult for people who plan to file Bankruptcy?Confused
 
I want to weight my options if I dont have to go bankrupt then I would like to know all factors
Who has my loans, where they are, when they were sent to collections, What the amount owing is, How do I make payments?
 
My loan is from the late 90's so the site says that I have to deal with the bank regarding any reductions.
The other question is Do outstanding loans prior to 2000 still handled by the HRDC (Federal)?   
 
if not
 
 Are they being held with the banks and the banks only?
 
The government has changed its position so many time since 2000 it is hard to understand the How,Who, What, Where's?


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 25/September/2008 at 4:21am

If the timelines described in section 178 have surpassed n respect of an application for discharge, you may apply. When you go bankrupt - all your debt is bankrupt, except that which is endorsed by another, perhaps. Creditors do reserve the right to oppose your discharge, as is usually the case with the Canada Student Loans Program.

When you go bankrupt, you are bankrupt. The only way you are going to fnd out if anything is discharged is to wait untl your discharge hearing and see who is opposing it.
 
"I also understand that there are 3 portions Provincial, Federal, Bank risk... to some OSAP loans"
 
If your student loan was disbursed before year 2000.
 
"I am attempting to locate all 3 but it seems that They (my OSAP creditors) make it almost impossible to locate all 3."
 
OSAP is only one of them. You have to go elsewhere to fnd the rest of them. Go to who you owe. OSAP is only responsible for debt owed under the Ontario Student assistance Program.
 
Creditors alike are becoming more aware and are better prepared to protect themselves from unnecessary losses.
 
Lastly, unless you speak their language and see through their lens, you will never be able to gain a complete understanding that financial system, and why it behaves the way it does. With our Group (CFWG), we see through that lens, and also the lens you see through, and all of the behaviors and attitudes associated with the consumer arena, and the financial community.
 
 
 
 


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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: gracie
Date Posted: 22/November/2008 at 6:05pm
Looking for a solution....100,000 dollars in the hole with student loans. What do you do? I just finished my studies in education....not making even close enough to make those kind of payments. So, is bankruptcy an option....Do I have to wait 7 years before I apply for bankruptcy? If so, what are others options for me?? Please respond...love to hear some comments. 


Posted By: OrlosGirl
Date Posted: 23/November/2008 at 11:20am
Yes, new legislation is that you must wait seven years after the year you are done full time studies.

My suggestion is that you make regular payments for as much as you are able to afford until the Statute runs out in 2015.  Then you declare bankruptcy.  That way the judge may be more likely to grant you a complete discharge.


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Trying to do everything He tells me. (John 2:5)


Posted By: paulaffleck
Date Posted: 23/November/2008 at 3:19pm
Don't declare bankruptcy.  Look into the new Repayment Assistance Program, which is a new program.  If possible, move to a smaller town to teach, with low rent.  Don't spend anything you don't have to, for about 3 years.  That should get you down to a manageable level of debt, but only with extreme sacrifice.  

That might not be realistic depending on circumstances, but it is my two cents worth.


Posted By: Madmorrigan
Date Posted: 23/November/2008 at 3:54pm
Gracie...I'm fairly positive that bankruptcy isn't an option for you at this time. Since you just graduated, you can't really say what your employment sitch will be like long term...give it some time, but keep up on your loans (apply for interest relief, etc) to keep them in good standing for as long as you can. I'm sure that will go a long way to help.

My sitch is pretty similar to the one above....graduated in 1997, full debt load, tried community college for ONE DAY back in 2001 but withdrew due to lack of finances (but because I went for ONE DAY as a full time student, the clock gets reset--total bs). I couldn't find a job to save my life for many many many years--declared bankruptcy back in 2001 due to some very bad advice from the good folks at the National Student Loan Centre.... now trying to pay back my CSL but my other loans are lurking somewhere...they've clawed back my GST/refunds for the last 3 years, but I generally don't get a refund anyway, so it doesn't really matter (much).

What irritates me is that I AM a responsible person--who just had some very bad luck for 5 years or so (like many others). Because I "let" my loans go into default, I wasn't eligible for any debt relief (in fact, I applied for IR before going bankrupt, as I was advised--and was declined...how they could decline someone with NO income whatsoever is completely beyond me). I'm in a better position now, but I still don't have any extra money and spent the last two weeks eating peanut butter sandwiches (only one per day...can't get too indulgent, y'know)...I have no friggin' future because I can't qualify for a mortgage or scrape up enough money to start savings for my "retirement" (the word is complete foreign to me--there will be no retirement, I'm going to have to slave until I die...which might be soon, since I don't know too many people who can live on one pb sammich a day for a long period of time). I am truly "working poor".  My mother cosigned a car loan for me...but in all reality, I can't depend on her to help out forever--and I'm fast approaching 40. I see no future. How bloody depressing.

Why are we treated like criminals??? Anyone with half a brain can see that I've had severe hardship...it's much better now, but it's clearly not optimal. But the minute we can't pay, we automatically get branded as deadbeats and they just effectively dismiss us from any assistance whatsoever. Nope, that's it...you had your chance.

Get a student loan, sell your soul. 




Posted By: old hippy
Date Posted: 24/November/2008 at 10:29am
I'm surprised they would lend out $100,000 in student loans.   The interest must be incredible. 


Posted By: gracie
Date Posted: 24/November/2008 at 8:23pm
Wow! You're not in a very good situation either. I must agree with you...there isn't much for help from what I've seen since graduation. I've been getting loans since 1990, and became educated, but feel like it was a waste when I think about my debt.
 
Lets say if I were to do it again, I sure as hell wouldn't take this route!
 
I hope we all find a way out of this mess.
 
 
 


Posted By: OrlosGirl
Date Posted: 25/November/2008 at 11:45am
Dude,

I would SO get yourself a trustee and file for bankruptcy.  Really.


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Trying to do everything He tells me. (John 2:5)


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 25/November/2008 at 3:38pm
Bad advice.

-------------
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: gracie
Date Posted: 25/November/2008 at 7:57pm
Thanks for your feed-back!!Smile
How can you say it's bad advice?  It sounds like an awsome plan of action. Sometimes it's the only route to take. I hear you talk about the difficult times one goes through during bankruptcy, and I'm sure there's some truth to that! However, I do know it's aprox. 7 years with bad credit, but that's not so bad considering one has 100,000 dollars in debt. Don't forget that most of us would probably take the rest of our lives to pay it!!! The payment on 100,000 is quite high, and I really am in no situation to pay that kind of payment per month.

So, can you Johnny offer me any solutions to my HUGE debt problem?



Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 26/November/2008 at 7:25am
To fill in the details.... bankruptcy does not involve an automatic discharge of student loans. You have to prove you acted in good faith and at the end of the discharge prove that paying back the loan will result in hardship... its not automatic... 
 
Bankruptcy Trustees are selling a product....  and a certain number of years have to pass since you were out of school to have your loans included in bankruptcy.  The wording is tricky.. and not all trustees are fully up on the regulations. As a consumer you can not rely only on the advice of a trustee. Ultimately the decision is yours. 
 
There have been tons of posts on this site of people going to bankruptcy trustees and declaring bankruptcy only to find out a few years later that the advice and info that their trustee gave them was wrong.
 
Not all trustees are like that but there has been a high incidence of incorrect advice.
 
If you just graduated, you are ineligible for bankruptcy release of your student loans.
 
Have you checked out Interest Relief? Debt Reduction in Repayment?   One thing for sure, is make sure your loans dont go into default! Get on the phone now and check into Interest Relief!


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Administrator
Mark OMeara
Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain
https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024


Posted By: Madmorrigan
Date Posted: 26/November/2008 at 10:03am
Originally posted by Johnny Johnny wrote:

Bad advice.


Agreed...if your only debt is student loans, it is ill-advised to declare bankruptcy as it will do nothing but ***k up your credit rating for years and years to come.

"My credit rating is already ***ked up, so it makes no difference"  I hear you thinking....

Yes, but having SL debt and working through it, v. declaring bankruptcy and having SL debt is completely different. With the former, there are options available--you won't have a stellar rating, but most institutions will be understanding about SL debt, especially if you can show that you were/are able to keep your other debts under control. With the latter, it just shows (on paper, anyway) that you just can't handle anything and, therefore, are a risk that they won't think is worth taking. You will forever carry the stigma--it sounds so fatalistic, but it's soooooo true....there is no true 'clean slate' with a bankruptcy, and it's an albatross around your neck for a very long time.

I had other debt when I declared bankruptcy--I had just gone through a divorce, had no job and was scared 'witless'--so I took the bad advice and did it out of fear and ignorance....but really, it was my SLs that were (and still are) the primary issue. Now, I'm just a former bankrupt with overwhelming SL debt--and I can't get credit on my own.  I will, for the rest of my life, be a 'bankrupt' (don't listen to anyone that tells you it 'drops off' after 7 years--it's supposed to, but those records are public domain and don't think for a moment that the credit lending institutions aren't checking).

Ultimately, you have to make the decision--but I would strongly advise against it. If I had the opportunity to do it again, I wouldn't.



Posted By: paulaffleck
Date Posted: 26/November/2008 at 4:09pm
This is a great posting, and exactly what is needed with respect to this issue - just some plain old good and honest hard advice.  Sometimes great advice costs nothing!


Posted By: cayt
Date Posted: 26/November/2008 at 6:02pm
Wow lots of talk about bankruptcy.  First and foremost it is a personal decision based on personal circumstances and it is not for everyone.  I declared bankruptcy in June 2008,  it is my second bankruptcy in my lifetime.  However,  there are many circumstances which led to my decision,  first and foremost a prolonged divorce and much matrimonial property.  I switched jobs,  moved,  experienced marital breakdown and yes had the same wonderful experiences as so many of you with the mysterious lost paperwork that student loans never seemed to receive and therefore missed all of the deadlines and faced reluctance from student loans on lowering any of my payments of approximately 800.00 per month while I was dealing with all of these stressors.  For myself bankruptcy was a viable solution to resolve my marital property settlements but the monies will go to pay towards my student loans and when discharged in February of 2009,  I will still be required to connect with student loans to negotiate a payment schedule. 
While I support Johnny in that bankruptcy is not a quick solution to solve the student loan crisis,  it can be a solution for some.  Reestablishing your credit can be trying but is not unattainable.  I have a secured credit card,  it may not be the most ideal but it has allowed me to have access to credit purchases.  I am currently financing a vehicle,  with permission from my trustee as I have maintained good standing with the trustee throughout my bankruptcy.  I will have to pay more interest than a standard bank loan but after twelve months can apply to have my loan refinanced.  It's a start and that's what is important. 
When I graduated from university I had no credit except a visa card with a low minimum.  Although I obtained employment immediately upon graduating,  had no defaulted loans etc.,  maintained all of my student loan payments,  I could not get financing for a vehicle or home because I did not have credit.  I then went to secondary mortagage brokers and worked towards establishing credit that way. 
I am not promoting bankruptcy in any way.  I do however believe that in some circumstances it may be necessitated and must be considered carefully.  Reestablishing your credit is possible but it will take time and effort. 


Posted By: gracie
Date Posted: 26/November/2008 at 8:24pm
Thanks again for more feed-back to my 100,000 dollar debt regarding bankruptcy!!!
 
I must say there are some of you completely against bankruptcy, and I'm sure for good reason.
 
I'll have to look at other options to explore. I believe I read on this site about offering to pay a certain portion of the loan, and they take care the rest....Not sure if I'm off track here, but if somebody wants to fill me in, I'd really appreciate it!Smile
 
 


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 28/November/2008 at 7:22am

Bankruptcy is 18th century. Today's financial problems are 21st century. Bankruptcy is not effective. Generation Y has grown up with a lot of exposure to bankruptcy in one way or another (more so than the boomers). In the youthful days of the boomers, bankruptcy was talked about very little and kept private. A bankrupt boomer was not likely to come out and say, "hey guys, guess what/ I went bankrupt!. You should all give it a try!" Bankruptcy was more of an embarrassment or disease that no one wants to discuss. Today, bankruptcy is talked about as if it is latest fashion trend that more and more people want in on.



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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: old hippy
Date Posted: 28/November/2008 at 10:34am
Yep...and that "latest fashion trend" attitude was probably one of the reasons they changed the bankruptcy laws in the first place. 
 
I still can't figure why they would let someone borrow $100,000 in student loans - even a brain surgeon would have difficulty making payments.  That amount is a real eye-catcher...I haven't seen many who have more debt than I do because I maxed out.   And from what I can remember, 10 years was the max # of years anyone was allowed to borrow. 
 
Gracie's been collecting since 1990 - so maybe the rules have changed.  Not many details....I also rec'd the max amount each year as a single student with no support.  But maybe Gracie has dependents.  She mentions that the payments on $100,000 are "quite high" - how high are they?  She seems way too cheerful for someone who is $100,000 in debt. 
 


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 28/November/2008 at 1:50pm
Yes, it was a contributing factor. Not to mention that a lot of bankruptcy firms were promoting insolvency to students as a way out of student debt. Yes, that is right. So, attitude and the abuse of insolvency were the the reasons.
 
How can they allow someone to borrow 100K? That is likely combined with private loans or lines of credit, perhaps. Nonetheless, the system requires people to be in debt in order to profit. It is a business. Bankruptcy is a business, and a VERY wealthy one at that. The non-profit debt poolers (bankruptcy in disguise) are as wealthy. THey can each afford millions of dollars advertising on televison, but they say they don't profit. IMPOSSIBLE. THey get a commission from the creditors, which is quite lucrative (which makes them collection agencies). With these programs, people are actually left worse off! Doesn't that give you a headache thinking about it? LOL


-------------
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: Goodgrief
Date Posted: 02/December/2008 at 5:12am
I've just been reading the posts today, and I find your posts to be very helpful Johnny!
Here's my situation, and I'd like your thoughts:
I took out a Quebec student loan 10 years ago. I started to pay it back, but being out of work after school, was unable to pay. later on, I simply forgot about it to tell you the truth - by that time I'd relocated to Toronto. I still get calls from the collectors up to this day. For some reason, the calls have been occuring more recently in the last few months. They recently sent out a pretty harsh letter, declaring a recommendation of legal action.
I'm not sure what rights they have? And what I can do?
Do I still have to pay at this point? Unfortunately I'm not in a position to pay the ever increasing amount. Now it's about $3500. It started out as a $1200 loan.
 
Can they take legal action against me?  Can I declare bankruptcy to avoid this?  Do i have to pay the amount that the rep tells me? Do you recommend sending post dated cheques?
 
Your help is a appreciated.
 


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 02/December/2008 at 7:58am
I cannot recommend anything to you unless you are a client. Limitations for Quebec student loans are 5 years, to be extended an additional five if the director's or minister's office catches you before barring, and issues out a formal demand (otherwise known as a final demand).
 
Word of advice - the last thing you want to tell any student loan provider or debt collector is that you "forgot about it". They really dislike it when people say this, even though it does happen. They will find ways to make you think about it everyday from there on.
 
Can they sue you? Of course they can. Will they? Don't know. Can you declare bankruptcy? Anyone can declare nbankruptcy. The problem is having it discharged. Student loans seem to slither away from bankruptcy proceedings.
 
If you need help, you will have to become a client. THe assistance you are seeking is not something that can be delivered over a public web forum.
 
Best.


-------------
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: trojen63
Date Posted: 10/January/2009 at 3:41pm
question
I have $40,000 in student loans graduated in 99 I believe maybe 2000. I went through a long divorce etc still going throught it actually. Thing is I ended up going bankrupt in 03/04 discharged in July 04. My student loans were not included obviously, however I have in the last year got copies of my credit report from Trans and Equifax. Both say discharged in Bankruptcy. One say I think Equifax " writin off" and included in bankruptcy.
Date of last activity was in 04 july I think. The collection agancy used to call me, I ignored them, they haven't called in two years now.
Have they been written Off or will they be back to harass me? . Also, I recieved me income tax refund last year so they haven't takin that. I just don't want to contact them, because then it would reset the timer and I went to a mortgage broker a few months ago and I just have to wait til the drop off the equifax report.
 
tahnks



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