Print Page | Close Window

Depression

Printed From: CanadaStudentDebt.ca
Category: Other Topics
Forum Name: Stress & Mental Health Dealing with Student Loans
Forum Description: A place to help dealing with the stress of this crap!
URL: https://www.canadastudentdebt.ca/forum_posts.asp?TID=2229
Printed Date: 26/March/2026 at 10:30pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.07 - https://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: Depression
Posted By: Hunter2
Subject: Depression
Date Posted: 17/February/2005 at 1:26pm
How many of us deal with it?
Do you guys think it came before or after the student loan issues? For my self I guess my tendency is to be a bit melancholy...sometimes I think more than act and it gets me into a funk. I did battle a rather serious bout of it and came out sunny side up but fear what CA's will do to me once my IR is up..will it cause a relapse..ect ect..
My first post here was very depressive, thoughts of suicide as a way out are part of an inner dialogue but I would never leave my kids..not even to release my family from my 100 000 yoke.
How many others think this way? Do CA"s make it worse? Does the frustration of the inept multitudes at HRDC, the big banks, NSLC make it worse? My doctor(a very empathetic caring socialist) had offered to stretch my battle with CFS for me to try to make this go away..not gonna happen because I can and would like to work. Anyone else wonder if depression can lead to CFS..fibro..ect thus making us truly ill?
Sigh...



Replies:
Posted By: lugarou
Date Posted: 17/February/2005 at 1:40pm
I am also a depressive sort. I am also an admitted Drama Queen. Believe you me, you are not alone. And I do think CAs know this is a posibility in their "marks" and much of the language they use preys upon the insecurities we have. Let's just say the CAs don't make things any better.

-------------
Did I mention I'm a Drama Queen?


Posted By: kwelmm
Date Posted: 17/February/2005 at 1:58pm
There were days in the beginning...before I found this site....that I thought I had it all together...having a good day...then I get the dreaded call.  I talk myself up into  a frenzy trying to explain things to an unsympathetic ear to no avail and then I become very emotional.  My kids suffer because all I wanted to do was cry...so I would escape to my room and have a good cry.  Thankfully, becoming familiar with CA dealings has given me strength to deal with these, hmmm, people.  I still have my bad days....when they catch me off guard....but not lately


Posted By: momof2
Date Posted: 17/February/2005 at 5:33pm

i've had bouts of depression since my teens.  nothing major, manageable.  had PPD after the birth of both my kids, my mood swings were ridiculous, likd of like when my hormones were raging in adolescence.  turns out i'm not bipolar or suffering from chonic depression, i have dysthymia, a mood disorder, and my doc figures i've had it all along but noever been properly diagnosed.  it makes me tend to get depressed episodes, then i'm ok, it cycles a bit more fluid than being manic depressive. 

was diagnosed with Carpal Tunnel ( i see the surgeon next month - ew) shortly after the birth of my second child.  complained for 2 years of the same symptoms - recently diagnosed as having fibromyalgia, the doc thinks my CFS is a side effect of the fibro.  plus my dysthymia is off the charts lately dealing with my SL crapola.  im stressed and feel physically ill lately - he now wants to run more tests for lupus and ms and ibs...along witht he usual regimen of bloodwork to check my thyroid and my blood sugar for there are diabetics and hypoglycemics in my family.  did i mention that i'm also obsessive compulsive ?  probably why i'm always on the site so much ( sorry mark for being such a pain).

i'm starting to feel like a medical dummy.  gee, doc, what the hell else can possibly be wrong with me ?  did i mention that i have chemical sensitivities and cam't take most medications ??  the wait list to see the specialist for that one is like 4-6 months long...

truly ill ?  i'm there.  on a bad day my fibro makes it almost physically impossible to get out of bed.  i can't open the fridge - good thing my kids can and that i am so bloody anal i keep all the stuff they like on the low shelves so they can pick what they want.  pretty bad when your three year old covers you with his blanket and kisses you better telling you that you need a nap and it'll be ok.  the pain has crippled me  many times - even slipped a disc in my back last summer and landed in bed for a week after i crawled to the car to go to emerg.  childbirth was nothing compared to this and i had to have 2 c-sections after going into labor both times.

alright enough of my whining...next question !



-------------
professionals built the titanic but amateurs built the ark...


Posted By: Hunter2
Date Posted: 17/February/2005 at 6:15pm
kwelmm
This board has helped me so much. Having a sense of empowerment(however misguided!) about my affairs has been invaluable. Just the knowledge that I am not "alone" makes it better somehow. I have dealt with frustration(RB is ludicrous) but no CA's yet so I am anxious as to my reaction. A good cry always helps

Momof2 I too have pretty severe carpal(the neurologist had difficulty believing I function in my left hand very well..its numb all the time!!) So I am on my way to surgery as well(of course being in SK that could be in the next ten years!!!

Lupus is terrible because it manifests in so many different ways I truly hope thats not what it is. I had a close friend with lupus and its a very mysterious disease. When I was going through my medical meltdown the doctors tested me for everything from MS to Arthritis and ended up with fibro as the default...

You know what my dear..there are some people that are just more sensitive..to everything from chemicals to others emotions to stress and back again. I believe this causes issues and your body strikes back at you causing aches and pains that range from mild(like mine) to sever like yours. CFS is a bitch the pain/the exhaustion/ but I hope that you find your way out of it. Lets hope the SL's are the first reprieve so that you can concentrate on your health.(By the way you ARE NOT whining...maybe venting but not whining!!)


Posted By: momof2
Date Posted: 17/February/2005 at 6:31pm

thanks hunter2

it seems like the more i go to the doctor the more goes wrong with me which makes it feel like i'm whining.  i've always had a very sensitive system ( allergies, perfume, bleach, cleaners, hair products, soap, etc etc etc as well as drug allergies) from childhood, but it seems to be intensifying of late.  i wish my doc could remove the smeller from my nose so i could enjoy one lousy trip to the grocery store without feeling like i could hurl from the olives at the deli or the bombardment from the sealed containers in the houshold products aisle or someone's perfume...

as for the carpal - i know what you mean.  do you get those sharp nasty pains from your shoulder to the tips of your fingers that wakes you from your sleep ?  first time it happened i though i was having a stroke, i kid you not.  apparently it has also made me cry in my sleep.  feel free to email me if you want someone to vent with.



-------------
professionals built the titanic but amateurs built the ark...


Posted By: pretzel_logic
Date Posted: 18/February/2005 at 1:02am

One problem I had was high anxiety over what to do next, trying to better things, driven by the fear of making the situation worse. And it was such that it was paralyzing. I did not make any move for fear of falling deeper in the hole. For example, do I settle for an entry-level position, hoping for an eventual promotion, and make my payments not knowing if I'll be able to clothe and feed my kids properly in the meantime? And if I don't, then doesn't this hinder my chances at a truly decent career in the long run?  It lead to a whole lot of anguish of the sort. And of course, all accompanied by the constant mind-numbing stress one can imagine. And that is just one angle that could mirror what others are going through, judging from what I've read so far.  



Posted By: hunter
Date Posted: 18/February/2005 at 5:30am
Prior to having contacting Johnny, I would say my problem with the panic and anxiety attacks at work with the collectors calling me all the time.

I would get scared and all panicky when I would answer the phone and it would be a private number or I would not recognize the number. The thought of the phone ringing would send me into this panic where at times I could not breathe. Several times I would have to drive myself to the Emergency room, as I seriously thought I was going to die. It was not a good feeling.

But I got rid of the abusive boyfriend back then and that seemed to help.
Johnny dealt with the rest.

Right now, I am feeling panicky again, as I have not made my payments to HRDC for January, as I had $ 500 in utility bills. I am scared to call them, but I know I should.

But things will work out in the end.


Posted By: pretzel_logic
Date Posted: 18/February/2005 at 6:11am

I hear a lot of good of Johnny. And I've read some encouraging types of deals having been reached leading to an happy ending where all parties are reasonably satisfied. Well, in my case, certainly there are scenarios that would be better than bankrupty. Say I pay back a fraction, like a third of the whole (or half of the capital, since this change in policy over interest occured way after I had contracted the bulk of what I owe), over fifteen years, something like that. That sounds bearable.

Sure I could go for that, if and only if my line of credit is restored in full upon my full compliance with said agreement. Sadly,  I doubt that is possible in a province without a debt reduction program. But what do I know?

 



Posted By: Hunter2
Date Posted: 18/February/2005 at 6:28am
lugarou
Missed your post at first sorry! Its funny how having kids slowly sucks the drama queen right out of you(I have three girls all little DQ's in their own right!) But I remember a conversation with a CA several years ago where I spazzed..screaming, yelling, crying over my SL debt. I freaked out so badly the CA actually said "I am never calling you again" that whole DQ thing can work to your advantage I horrified that CA...Sigh I don't think I have it in me anymore though!

Momof2..I am sorry that life is hard for you right now. I totally empathize with what you are saying. I don't have the issue with hypersensitivity and imagine its very trying. My Carpal was much more painful during pregnancy..now its just numb all the time(nerve damage is so lovely!!!) But at least its not in my right hand because that would render me somewhat incapacitated in my current position as all around child caretaker/cook/dishwasher/laundress/dog walker...to bad they are all unpaid postions!!!

pretzel_logic
I understand what you are saying. Its like a foggy delirium and its so hard to know whats right. Right now I am not sure what to do..do I take any job I can find? Do I go back to school for my ed degree? Do I babysit so that I can pay back a little money? Its just tough tough. Especially with the potential for change that I believe is on the horizon...

hunter..anxiety attacks are horrifying, I have only ever had one and literally thought I was going to die. It must have been terrible for you to have to undergo that while trying to work. Its a cycle isn't it? I know you will call them and feel so much better afterwards its just a matter of building up the courage!! It will work out for all of us...I hope!



Posted By: polyhymnia61
Date Posted: 18/February/2005 at 6:53am

I can't say I would have been diagnosed as clinically depressed...it was more situational. I had a lot of dreams for my son and I after the divorce. And they all went up in smoke. In addition, the lack of support from my so-called friends university just made things worse. They refused to believe it could be that bad...made lame comments like, "Oh, it will get better," got married and disappeared into suburbia to breed and accumulate assets...and just stopped returning my phone messages, even though I had given up discussing my situation totally, trying so hard not to be a "downer."

It's lonely enough going through this crap. Even more lonely when you're middle-aged and all your peers did the financial struggling thang years earlier. Thank god I had one rebellious divorcee girlfriend and one long-distance boyfriend who was a life-long struggling musician. They've kept me sane...and hopeful...

Hunter2...I laughed about your DQ comments...I am proud to say that I am an unrepentant DQ. More collection agents have hung up on me than visa versa!!!!

My motto: When in doubt, freak out.

Poly!

 



-------------
Home is where you are allowed to prosper.


Posted By: Hunter2
Date Posted: 18/February/2005 at 7:20am
Poly...looks like I may have to go looking for my inner DramaQueen to fend off the future CA phone calls(IR is up in June!) )I am going to have to make that my CA motto I think..when in doubt freak out...love it.

It takes difficult situations to conjur up the truth about friends. When I became a single mom most of my "buddies" went up in smoke. In my experience my male friends stuck it out while my women friends pissed off(although my guy buds disappeared when I or they got married..go figure!!).Its a kicker though. You seems so generally good humoured its hard to imagine friends thinking you were a downer. Thank God for true ones.


Posted By: polyhymnia61
Date Posted: 18/February/2005 at 10:23am

Not a downer, I think. Just scary. I was their worst nightmare: single mom, poor, no hope for the future. They just couldn't handle that they knew someone like that. It's like if it happened to someone they know, it could happen to them...like a contagious disease...

Human nature...*shrug*

Poly



-------------
Home is where you are allowed to prosper.


Posted By: lola
Date Posted: 26/February/2005 at 3:35pm
Stress can indeed cause many symptoms you are speaking of. Stress
is the cause of most illness. We struggle, our defenses are lowered,
and nasty disease is the result. Fibro, lupus, cancer....

It's hard for us sensitive ones to not take the world upon our
shoulders, and to not believe we are the scum we are being told we
are. I found the best way for me to deal with stress, illness, and
depression was to take control of my life and expose myself to only
positive things and people.

As far as SL goes, it was a MAJOR stressor until I realized that if
there truly was anything the CAs could do, like squeeze blood from
stone, they would be doing it rather than making harassing phone
calls.

Your health comes first. Not that I am recommending this course of
action, but if you are on the verge of meltdown there is a possibility
for those calls. 3 words & one sound - "So sue me." Click.
New phone number. Not at this address on the mail. Get well, and
then deal with the SL. Remember, your health comes first. As my
father told me in a very difficult moment "There is no debtor's
prison." This is Canada, not a fascist dictatorship - as much as the
CAs try to make us believe that, we have rights. As long as I'm
not in jail, I'm happy!

So put your health and your family first. Live for the moment,   
give yourself a and think positive.

"Life consists in what a person is thinking of all day."
                                       Ralph Waldo Emerson

-------------
Lola


Posted By: cyn66
Date Posted: 26/February/2005 at 9:00pm

Depression for me has a vicious-circle connection with my student loans.  A few years ago I was diagnosed with depression and CFS.  Drugs and psychiatry have done nothing and I am no better than I was five years ago. 

As a result of this illness, I've found it difficult to think about a career.  The thought of working 8 hours a day, 5 days a week, for the rest of my life....this completely terrifies me.  I do it when I have to, and have worked successfully, but never for very long.  Instead I repeatedly break down and return to school as an "escape" from the 9-5 working life.  I have always done well in school, and the schedule is mostly flexible which means I can sleep when I need to, and do school work when I'm able to.

I am currently in college doing an 8-month program (not on student loan, thank god).  I don't particularly like it, and am not looking forward to the new career that it offers (it bores me, not challenging at all).  But I had a nervous breakdown in my last job and had to get out somehow.  It was a really great job, the one I had dreamed about, but I nearly killed myself from exhaustion and stress of working 40 hours a week, and going to college was a way out.  Seems pathetic to me, not the smartest way to handle things.  As a result of this pattern of escaping to school, I also have a BA in French, a BA in Anthropology, and half an MA.  Of course, I ended up with $40,000 in student loans.  Thinking about my debt does little to help my depression.

I am pretty unhappy with the way I have lived my life thus far.  So much university, and now I'm in college, living in my aunt and uncle's basement at the age of 30.  I have hardly any work experience because I've been "hiding" in school most of my life.  My degrees have proved to be nearly useless, not because they are useless in themselves, but because I don't seem to have the energy or guts to put them into action and find a decent long term career.  I seem to quit everything I do out of sheer exhaustion.

On top of all this, I have bad self-esteem issues....I figure that with all my schooling and my supposed "brains" I should have a decent, respected, interesting, well-paying career by now.  But I'm an unemployed boring nobody, while most of my friends have gone on to get the jobs that I wanted.  I try not to care, but it really gets me down.

Now I have decided that enough is enough...I simply cannot go back to school again after this, it's time to smarten up.  But I am scared.  How will I do this 9-5 thing for the rest of my life?  How do other people do it?  They make it look so easy.  Depression and CFS are real buggers.  Most people don't even acknowledge them as illnesses, they think I'll "get over it" and cheer up one of these days.  Sometimes (actually most of the time) I even tell myself to get over it, stop being such a baby and just get to work like everyone else.  But I'm so tired. 

I am faced with the end of my college program in 2 months, and this is when my new working life will start....I am looking forward to the paycheques (so are the student loan people, I'm sure), but I am absolutely terrified that I won't last more than a year or two, if that.  Does anyone else feel this way?  Or am I just crazy? 

I recently received the shocking news that I am in default for an $11,000 loan that I didn't know I had.  This has not helped my situation at all.  But thanks to all of you guys on this forum, I have not felt alone and it's been something I can definitely deal with.  Thank you everyone for being here!  Sorry for rambling about myself, just wanted to talk out loud. 

 



Posted By: polyhymnia61
Date Posted: 26/February/2005 at 11:27pm

That's what we're here for...

Not to minimize your health problems, nor the difficulty of pulling this off, but my gut instinct is to urge you to avoid thinking of the big picture -- the "rest of my life!" You may be less overwhelmed if you try not to think past getting through one day at a time. Set mini-goals and reward yourself when you accomplish them. Or work towards the reward; try not to think of your job as your life, but as the tool to get you something you really want...

Another thought...is 9 to 5 all there is? Have you any talents or skills that you could utilize as a freelancer?

I know none of these suggestions is easy to do, nor do I assume they are workable...I've just been forced over the years to rethink how I live my life, because I haven't been able to conform to confines of the status quo...Graduation, 9 to 5 job, marriage, house, blablabla...

Keep in touch.

Poly



-------------
Home is where you are allowed to prosper.


Posted By: pretzel_logic
Date Posted: 27/February/2005 at 1:24am

"I recently received the shocking news that I am in default for an $11,000 loan that I didn't know I had."

Part of my freshman years are a little hazy too. 



Posted By: pretzel_logic
Date Posted: 27/February/2005 at 1:55am

Seriously you guys bring up a good point that is not talked about very much: the fact that most these loans were contracted with KIDS, people still unclear about their way in life and more prone to make bad decisions. Spurred on by the government, banks lent kids money, no questions asked, and at a shylock rate of interest. 

If there is a sorry situation that arose from this practice of theirs, why would the banks and governement be cleared of their responsability in it? No, instead the kid goes underground for ten years, living day to day, in relative exclusion. And of course they don't show up anymore on bankruptcy stats. 

Forget brain drain, I've been brain framed. Because while I was in the process of studying, involved in a thesis and heavily indebted, the rules changed on loans. And even in that great game of monopoly they call life that remains cheating. You don't change the rules in the middle of the game, because there are such things as "progressively implementable measures" to remedy a failed system.

What is the savagery for? ten years, I mean... overnight.

 



Posted By: polyhymnia61
Date Posted: 27/February/2005 at 2:38am

I've said this before...They expect 17 and 18 year olds to take responsibility to what amounts to a small mortgage when they are barely past the allowance stage.

Yet their parents get their hands held every step of their application for a mortgage, an investment...How are the parents supposed to help or realize how much is dumped on an inexperienced kid's lap? Mom and dad may have had student loans, but they remember a very different system 20 or more years ago...How are they supposed to understand how things have changed?

It's almost as if this system was purposely planned in anticipation that most people will mess up...So that the governments and the banks can ensure that they make a profit and make it worth their while.

Like I've said so many times...If a banker with 11 years experience can't avoid the crap, how can the average student?

Poly



-------------
Home is where you are allowed to prosper.


Posted By: pretzel_logic
Date Posted: 27/February/2005 at 3:12am

Yes, well put. And a banker with experience always has the advantage of the market rules not changing  on him in the middle of a serious investment. 

For sure, they could have been much kinder gentler. They could have discriminated between the students already in a load of debt at the time of their reform and those just coming into the system, those made properly aware of the new stringent rules regarding their investment in their own education beforehand. But no, they had to resort to the ten-year rule and changes in policy regarding interest across the board, no matter what. And that amounted to cruel and unusual punishment in many cases. 



Posted By: Hunter2
Date Posted: 27/February/2005 at 6:49am
cyn66
oh I am sorry what a terrible cycle. Venting does make one feel better and we are here to listen and help anyway we can.
i agree with you about depression and CFS not being recognized as actual illnesses, its terrible especially when they are so debilitating. Is there anyway you could do freelance work that might allow you a more flexible schedule? I too lost myself in school a bit, became a crutch of sorts so I empathize with your fear in that department. Poly has a great point about looking at it in smaaller chunks...might be less overwhelming that way.

pretzel_logic
The whole ten years thing seems like even more of a life sentence if what is often insinuated on this board proves to be true. That is that no one ever has this crap discharged...ever. Talk about cruel and unusual punishment for those of us who cannot pay.



Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 27/February/2005 at 7:00am

 

 Hi Hunter2,

 It is not that "no one" will have their student loans discharge.

Those who are examined, are considered as having acted in good faith, have demonstrated hardship through extenuating circumstances that is and will continue to occur, then they would be discharged without question.  

 If a person is trying to escape the responsibility by riding the bankruptcy bicycle, then they will not be discharged. 

 Johnny  



-------------
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: lola
Date Posted: 27/February/2005 at 7:52am
cynn66
I am sorry that things have been so difficult for you.
When I finally decided to go back to school( as an divorced single
mother) the program I decided on was from the advice of a friend
who was dying at the time. He said "If you didn't have to earn
money, what would you spend your time doing?" We had gone to
school together since elementary school, so I couldn't s#!t him.

So my studies reflected this inborn attraction to my field. I took out
student loans and successfully completed my studies. Now I don't
make a lot of money in my field, but I work on my own time, and am
happy in my work. No, I LOVE my work. My friend passed on about
10 years ago, but not a day goes by that I don't thank him for
assisting me in seeing my road happiness. And it was so simple.

Life is simple. We complicate it with things which are non-existent.
Our deluded views about how "useless" or "deadbeat" or "unfocused"
we are keep us from what we are really meant to do.

Stop worrying about what others think, and look into your heart and
assess what would make you a happy contributng member of
society. Then use the skills you have gained in your studies and
experience to make yourself happy. When you are happy it will be
reflected by those around you.
Chin up! By the looks of your academics you can go in almost any
direction.
What would you do if you didn't have to earn a living? Honestly.

-------------
Lola


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 27/February/2005 at 2:24pm

 

 Hunter2

 You have raised a very valid argument regarding specific illnesses  

 The illnesses CFS and depression are VERY debilitating therefore they should be recognized. Why aren't they? Medical doctors and Psychiatrists have diagnosed and profiled these diseases as debilitating. How can the governments say that these diseases would not have any relationship with hardship? 

 Depression is not recognized mainly because it is so common thus so many people suffer from it. If they recognized depression as a hardship, and allowed loans to be forgiven due to the debilitating nature of this illness, then they would have to dismiss a large percentage of their loans due to hardship.

  Sure, there are many different types of depression, however, they all have one thing in common. They are debilitating no matter how one slices it.

 Johnny   



-------------
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: silence2long
Date Posted: 27/February/2005 at 5:29pm

Lola,

I know what I would be doing if I did not have to make money to survive...........

I would be baking cookies.....sewing.......scrapbooking.....painting .... reading novels.........growing a garden......cleaning my house and other household chores.....having a lovely little nappy in the afternoon........preparing a nutritious supper ....helping the kids with homework....running them to their activities....reading bedtime stories... and my list could go on... and on !!!  (Two days a week is simply not enough time to cram it all in--Sat & Sun)

Don't get me wrong........I love my job....but I would volunteer what I do now to a certain degree....... as well as other volunteer jobs in my community.  I didn't mind being a stay-at-home mom in the past... I rather enjoyed it..... and miss it !!!!  Only I have to make money....... no choice here. ( Before it was due to lack of employment opportunities)

So to all those that have the opportunity to be at home.... I am wishing you the best, enjoy it while you are there.

I went to school the first time to pursue the dreams.....I pursued what truly made me happy...... unfortunately it didn't cut it... couldn't obtain financing to further the dreams..... so now it is just an occassional hobby interest that I do when I have the time.  I had to re-school and get a different job........... fortunately for me it was runner-up career.... and I do love it.... as well as feel blessed to have full-time employment for the time being.

Could I grow old doing it.. I think so !!!  When I got into this career, I  asked myself........Do I have to do it for the rest of my life??  My answer was NO..........NO.........NO, not if I did'nt want too !!! 

Until the kids finish school..... that would be nice, then decide from there. So I have basically chunked my life at this point, and that does seem to get me through.  There are times that I count the days until the weekend.....or even chunk a day to get through it...when I am really stressed out.  It seems to make the time go faster.  I am thankful for life and seasons that chunk it for us... we are quite a chunky society !!!  It is all around us..all the time.

We all just happen to be in the student debt stress chunk of it.  I think that I really need to stop stressing about it as much as I am... and go read that novel... or bake those cookies.... paint a picture... and forget about it for small chunks of time..........because I myself suffer from OCD.........and I am starting to obsess a little too much on all this student debt.....and it is really wearing me down.  These days I am thinking about it way tooooooooo much !!!

I need a break.......... Deep down......I know that I will get through it........I have gotten through it thus far.....amazingly so !!!  I will continue to rise and shine.......

Catch you all later !!!!

 



-------------
silence is a form of fear...fear of the unknown...has kept me silent too long


Posted By: Hunter2
Date Posted: 27/February/2005 at 5:33pm
Johnny..I see what you mean. In such a case who exactly does the "examining" to determine hardship? Is there any type of pre existing criteria they go by or is it a subjective case by case approach?

I think...as far as the illnesses go that CFS/depression/fubro..can all be very diffuse with a large range from mild to severe. There are also no black&white tests to "prove" these conditions exist therefore the gov't does not recognize them.

lola..... ......


Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 27/February/2005 at 10:32pm
there is a test for CFS... they have found that certain hormones messed in CFS. Here's the link


"Researchers found that people with CFS produced unusually high levels of the hormone melatonin, which stimulates the immune system and plays an important role in promoting sleep. "

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/117791.stm - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/117791.stm


Posted By: momof2
Date Posted: 28/February/2005 at 3:11am

Mark

thanks for the link - an interesting article to discuss with my doc.

wrt diagnosis of fibro, OCD, CFS, depression, etc being considered a disability, there is a listing of "diseases and conditions" that CPP-disability uses which is updated each year - fibro .  there is an adjudication process for having your app reviewed, so it is a case by case scenario. 

goto http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca/en/isp/pub/cpp/disability/5threport/5thpg11.shtml - http://www.hrsdc.gc.ca/en/isp/pub/cpp/disability/5threport/5 thpg11.shtml

hardest part is justifying the lack of  CPP contributions if your health stinks and you can't work so that they will still consider your app .



-------------
professionals built the titanic but amateurs built the ark...


Posted By: Hunter2
Date Posted: 28/February/2005 at 5:03am
Mark..thanks for the link..thats news to me! 3 years ago when I was told I had CFS and Fibro my doc said there was really no way of "proving" either one. Meanwhile I had undergone every test known to man because "some" of my symptoms(numbness..dropping things...ect) indicated MS.
Thats really interesting.
Momof2..that IS the worst is justifying to some 'crat that you are "ill" enough. The reange for CFS is so wide and I still believe if you have a medical professional saying you are unable to function 9-5 that should be enough.

silence2long
Wow..that sound lovely but its not indicative of my reality in staying at home. I only have one child in school and my days are spent nursing/cleaning/laundring/cooking. Yes I do play with my 2 kids at home, bake with them on occasion, and do homework with the eldest but painting? Scrapbooking? reading? napping?...not likely.


Posted By: pretzel_logic
Date Posted: 28/February/2005 at 7:32am

Okay... but that would imply you almost need some medical anomaly to ever get discharged. When you and I know that out there it is not the case. People go bankrupt every day and they may not necessarily strike you as handicapped, destitute or needy in any way noticeable.

And it seems you are implying that the discrimination students face as borrowers would go on in different forms, under a five-year rule and that the burden of proof on hardship would still be higher for students than for anyone else. And that would render any effort to curb down the discrimination between borrowers useless but for a few somehow proven (physically or mentally) handicapped among us. 

And that leads me to depression. Like there's always a way to stay on topic, eh?



Posted By: momof2
Date Posted: 28/February/2005 at 8:55am

speaking of depression, here's fuel for the fire...

got reassessed on my 2003 taxes.  no sweat.  an extra 51 bucks in income ( how is it the bank of canada forgets where i live ??), changed nothing.  fine.  open hubbys - he now owes 266 bucks because of tuition transfer credits that can't be transferred ( insert groan here).

we have no choice but to let the interest accrue on the outstanding debt until i can do this years taxes and itll come off his refund.  plus my oil bill is 233 bucks this month.  and i got a notice from collectcorp in the mail regarding an overdue visa - happy monday to me.



-------------
professionals built the titanic but amateurs built the ark...


Posted By: Hunter2
Date Posted: 28/February/2005 at 8:55am
pretzel_logic
I am not implyimg either that you need to be sick or that the burden of proof should be higher in order for students to be discharged..

I do not believe medical reasons should be the only way a sl debtor should be discharged....all debtors should be treated the same.

The suggestion here is that under the current tyranny that at the very least if someone is ill that should exempt them from payment or allow for relief until they are well enough to work.


Posted By: Hunter2
Date Posted: 28/February/2005 at 9:08am
Aww mom...that sucks.We did the same thing last year, our reassesment put us higher and we had to wait til the refund this year to pay it back! Don't let it stress u too much.
I keep my fingers crossed for you that at the very least the sl problems get sorted out and it has a trickle down effect on other issues!
Chin up dear!


Posted By: pretzel_logic
Date Posted: 28/February/2005 at 10:17am

dad of two here. so mom of 2 I can relate with, sort of.

It was worse back when your debt went to your kids upon death, not so long ago actually. Yes, speaking of the psychological burden of debt, it was especially tough to live with the fact that my children would inherit my debt. Depressive tendencies, yes, always but now I had to survive at all cost.

And there was relief, and as Alexa McDonough so elegantly put, we applaud the government for that measure. It's just not enough by itself. But big big weight off the shoulders there, huge.

Johnny, don't bum me out now. 



Posted By: reddragon
Date Posted: 01/March/2005 at 8:33am
Higher education...  Any idea what this student loan problem has created?   Suicide, depression, illness... I start to understand why a lot of students are forced into making unethical decisions about their lives.  Who wants to live this way?  Credit ruined, up to your neck in debt and no way out.  By the time you can afford to finish paying, you're over 40 and so depressed and tired and disinterested in having a family.  Especially if you're a woman.  Then you need to worry about how stable your career is if you want to have kids, I mean divorce rate is now around 50%...

I can understand why your neighbour took that route.  It's just a little too tempting.

I wish I knew before I took out the loans.  I'd have opted to work at McDonalds full-time instead. 


Posted By: momof2
Date Posted: 01/March/2005 at 10:41am

if i knew then what i know now i would have stuck with my retail management job.  at least i wouldn't have 30K in SL's...

 



-------------
professionals built the titanic but amateurs built the ark...


Posted By: reddragon
Date Posted: 02/March/2005 at 8:21am
I guess the only thing is to be born lucky...


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 03/March/2005 at 9:00am

 

 The best thing is to become aware.



Posted By: reddragon
Date Posted: 04/March/2005 at 6:01am
I am aware.  I'm aware that if you're poor, it's very expensive to stay alive.


Posted By: mesonic
Date Posted: 04/March/2005 at 9:58am

Originally posted by reddragon reddragon wrote:

I am aware.  I'm aware that if you're poor, it's very expensive to stay alive.

I agree.



Posted By: Hunter2
Date Posted: 04/March/2005 at 12:15pm
reddragon
I understand where you are coming from. I feel my education was not worth the precarious postion it places both myself and my family. In the case of student loans for undergrad degrees that do not lead to any specific career the system needs to be revamped.
A couple of ideas
.1..have the students themselves submit a proposal of payment prior to receiving loans..inclusive of a "what if I don't finish my degree clause" Let thme make the choice eyes wide open.

2... Take a look at altering tuitions depending on income rather than giving out loans(ie a 22 year old mom working part time at a gas station pays 50$ per class..thereby enabling her to take part time classes and earn an education w/o going kneedeep in debt)

3...amend the bankruptcy act to 5 years

4...alternative to bankruptcy..make loan repayment income contingent(and not by spreading out over 15 years)...if you are making 2000 a month your payments are 5% of your income and you have to make your best effort over 5 years at which time you are revaluated and perhaps forgiven your debt.

Anyway these ideas just a tiny sampling of ways to make things better. We can make it better and make our own luck.


Posted By: Hunter2
Date Posted: 04/March/2005 at 12:17pm
Johnny I had asked you some specific questions further up in the thread but I think they got lost with the new postings.
Would you mind answering them please?
Thanks.


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 04/March/2005 at 5:04pm

 

 Hunter2,

 My apologies.

 I think this is the question you are referring to:

 "Johnny..I see what you mean. In such a case who exactly does the "examining" to determine hardship? Is there any type of pre existing criteria they go by or is it a subjective case by case approach?"

 The Supreme Court Justice and Counsel to The Canada Student loans Program is who examines the matter at hand. The Crown's counsel with examine and cross-examine to opose the discharge in the event that they are not satisfied that the bankrupt has acted in good faith.

 The following is a case hearing for discharge under a section 178 in the Province of British Columbia.It will give you an idea of how tough it is.

  

IN THE SUPREME COURT OF BRITISH COLUMBIA

Citation:

Canada(Attorney General) v. Cummings,

2003 BCSC 1530

Date: 20031008


Docket: 31502

Registry: Vernon

IN THE MATTER OF THE BANKRUPTCY

OF CHRISTOHER WAYNE CUMMINGS

Between:

ATTORNEY GENERAL OF CANADA

CREDITOR

And

CHRISTOPHER WAYNE CUMMINGS

BANKRUPT


Before: The Honourable Mr. Justice Goepel

Reasons for Judgment

Appearing In Person:

C.W. Cummings

Counsel for Attorney General of Canada, Canada Student Loans:

L.C. Turner

Date and Place of Hearing:

September 22, 2003

Kelowna, B.C.


INTRODUCTION

[1]          The Attorney General of Canada appeals an order of a Master made July 2, 2003, granting Mr. Christopher Cummings an absolute discharge from bankruptcy. Mr. Cummings' outstanding debts consisted almost entirely of student loans.

BACKGROUND

[2]          From 1988 until 1992, Mr. Cummings attended Simon Fraser University. He graduated in August 1992 with an Honours degree in Geography. During his studies, he borrowed $15,195 from the Canada Student Loans Program.

[3]          Subsequent to graduation, he was unable to obtain employment in a field for which he was qualified. He began work as a bartender. In 1993, after having failed to negotiate an extension of his interest-free status, he defaulted on his loan payments.

[4]          In May 1994, Mr. Cummings and his wife moved to South Korea where he obtained employment as an English teacher. He remained in South Korea until May 1998. By November 1997, he had saved the equivalent of approximately $40,000 Canadian held in Korean currency. Subsequent devaluation of the Korean Won reduced his savings by half. Mr. Cummings and his wife returned to Canada in May 1998 with approximately $20,000 in savings.

[5]          In the fall of 1998, Mr. Cummings was accepted into the Computer Systems Operation and Management Program at the University College of the Cariboo in Kamloops. Mr. Cummings indicates that his plan was to complete the program in order to get a good job that would give him the financial ability to address his outstanding debts.

[6]          In December 1998, Mr. Cummings' wife, who suffers from epilepsy, became pregnant. Because she was pregnant, her medication had to be reduced to a minimum level making it impossible for her to work. Their daughter was born in August 1999. His wife has not returned to work.

[7]          Mr. Cummings is presently employed in the computer field as a computer port developer. That employment opportunity arose from a cooperative education work semester. Since April 2003, he has been earning $23.50 per hour. Because of his employment, he is still one semester short of completing his computer program. He must complete the program by January 2005. If he does not complete the program, his opportunities for work in the computer field will be limited.

[8]          As of December 16, 1994, the outstanding balance on Mr. Cummings' Canada Student Loan was $16,450.67. In 1995 he made one voluntary payment of $300.00. On March 21, 1996, by way of set off from a tax refund, $1,072.60 was paid toward the loan and on September 20, 2000, a further $1,387 was recovered. On October 23, 2000, the Attorney General of Canada obtained a judgment against Mr. Cummings in the amount of $22,658.25.

[9]          Mr. Cummings agreed to pay $150.00 per month on the judgment until he completed his education, at which time the payment scheduled would be reviewed. Between February 1, 2001 and September 5, 2002 Mr. Cummings made 18 payments totalling $2,700.00. A further $274.53 was recovered by way of set off. In total, Mr. Cummings has paid $5,646.47. The amount now owing, including interest, is $22,991.60.

[10]     Mr. Cummings made an assignment into bankruptcy on October 8, 2002. His liabilities totalled $28,997.84. All but $170 of his liabilities arose from student loans. As of October 8, 2002 he owed the Provincial student program $6,327.84 and the Canadian Student Loan program $22,500.00.

DISCUSSION

[11]     Because the bankruptcy was filed just over ten years after Mr. Cummings' last period of study, s. 178(1)(g) of the Bankruptcy and Insolvency Act, R.S.C. 1985, C. B-3 does not apply. Mr. Cummings' discharge must be considered under the general principles of the Act.

[12]     In Re Legault (1994), 88 B.C.L.R. (2d) 242 (C.A.), the court noted that student loans have special characteristics in that they are only made on proof of financial need and are expected to be repaid from future earnings. In considering student loans in the context of a discharge application, Mr. Justice Hollinrake, speaking for the majority, held at ¶ 48:

...that on a discharge application, while student loans are not to be treated differently from other debts in terms of the principles to be applied by the court, the court can and should, as part of its deliberations, be mindful of the unique characteristics of a student loan. I emphasize again that, in my opinion, the court should not focus on the fact that the debt was created through a student loan program to the extent that the general principles which apply on a discharge application are in any way lessened.

[13]     In Legault, Mr. Justice Hollinrake held that in determining the appropriateness of a discharge it was open to the court to consider the factors set out by Mr. Justice Macdonald in Re Van Steenes (1992), 13 C.B.R. (3d) 131 (B.C.S.C.), including: the prejudice to a single significant creditor, the public interest in upholding student loan programs, the bankrupt's failure to make reasonable efforts to pay and the bankrupt's present and future capacity to pay. Mr. Justice Hollinrake cautioned that those considerations cannot be given such emphasis that the conditions attached to a discharge will "tie a millstone around a man's neck".

[14]     The Master in brief reasons granted Mr. Cummings an absolute discharge. He stated:

Considering the situation since Mr. Cummings graduated in 1992, and the circumstances in which he presently finds himself, that is to say, supporting an epileptic wife and a child, it is my view - and I am going to exercise my discretion - to grant him an absolute discharge.

[15]     In Patterson v. Royal Bank (1984), 59 B.C.L.R. 234 (C.A.), the Court of Appeal stated that an appellate court may disturb a decision regarding a discharge from bankruptcy if the judge misconstrued a fact, violated a principle of law or imposed conditions that are too severe. In Re Perlman (1993), 22 C.B.R. (3d) 248 (B.C.S.C.), Mr. Justice Tysoe held that the criteria articulated in Patterson apply equally to a judge considering an appeal of a registrar's order regarding a discharge.

[16]     I am satisfied that by emphasizing Mr. Cummings' present situation the Master failed to properly consider the principles applicable to a discharge from bankruptcy when student loans are involved.

[17]     Mr. Cummings graduated from university in 1992. Other than one $300 payment in 1995, he made no attempt subsequent to graduation to pay down his student loans. He defaulted on the student loans within months of graduation. In 1994, Mr. Cummings and his wife left for Korea, where they saved substantial sums of money, while ignoring the obligations Mr. Cummings had incurred.

[18]     When they returned to Canada in 1998 with $20,000 in savings, Mr. Cummings made no attempt to reduce his student loan debt. It was only after the Attorney General of Canada took judgment against him that he began to repay his obligations.

[19]     Mr. Cummings is presently earning in excess of $23 an hour. I am told his annual wage is approximately $49,000.00. It would appear that his earnings presently exceed his expenses by some $400.00 a month.

[20]     Although Mr. Cummings has indicated his present financial position may not be as rosy as it appears because of the economic problems facing his employer and the potential costs of returning to school to complete his program of studies, he has shown the ability to earn income. He has the present and future capacity to make payments.

[21]     Taking all of the circumstances into account, I have concluded that an absolute discharge is not appropriate in this case. Mr. Cummings discharge from bankruptcy will be conditional upon payment to the Trustee of an additional $9,600.00. He shall pay that amount at a minimum rate of $200 a month commencing November 1, 2003 and he may pay such greater amounts as he chooses in order to accelerate the date of final payment and discharge.

"R.B.T. Goepel, J."
The Honourable Mr. Justice R.B.T. Goepel

 

 

 

 



Posted By: silence2long
Date Posted: 05/March/2005 at 3:37am

Johnny,

I have read the above posting and am a little curious as to why this person is able too bankrupt his student loans considering he returned to school in 1998...........would that not be his last period of study ??

Resetting the clock on the ten-year rule ?? 

 



-------------
silence is a form of fear...fear of the unknown...has kept me silent too long


Posted By: silence2long
Date Posted: 05/March/2005 at 3:42am
By the way..........I agree with the clause 21..........this guy should have to pay that amount !!!! 

-------------
silence is a form of fear...fear of the unknown...has kept me silent too long


Posted By: Hunter2
Date Posted: 05/March/2005 at 6:24am
Johnny
Thank you! Interesting. so in the case of someone who should have had capacity to pay the judgement is for payment. In my opinion, that was fair, had this individual been making payments from Korea he could have easily paid off the debt. The devaluation of the Won would have been less signifigant to him had he been making timely payments.
Where can I find case law like this?


Posted By: polyhymnia61
Date Posted: 05/March/2005 at 10:49am

Okay...I thought I was just being a biatch, but apparently s2 and h2 agree with me...fair judgement, I think.

Poly



-------------
Home is where you are allowed to prosper.


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 05/March/2005 at 2:15pm

 

 Silence,

 In this public record, the bankrupt tried to have the debt discharged under section 178 but was rejected.

 Now, as for the return to studies after the fact ... the BIA stipulates that "a bankrupt may apply to the court to have a student loan discharged once the bankrupt has ceased to be a full or part-time student for 10 years." The motion for discharge was denied based on all sorts of issues.

 In Discussions outlined in section 11 and 12, it clearly reflects that the motion for discharge will be rejected based on the fact that "it does not apply" in this bankrupt's case.

 Hunter2,

 I have all kinds of this stuff. I will be running them on my site in the near future so people can become even more aware.

 Johnny

  

 



Posted By: Mersan
Date Posted: 05/March/2005 at 2:42pm

My question is should there not been a program in 1992-1993 that would have extended interest relief or perhaps debt reduction.  Once you are in default in Canada you can't get out and so after this there is really no incentive to repay the loan.  Provide the borrower with incentive such as the ability through regular payments to remove the default.  The problem is there are not enough options if one runs into trouble it seems.  For criminal offenses there are pardons for Canada student loans it is life.  

It was a very fair decision in the end. 

 



Posted By: Hunter2
Date Posted: 05/March/2005 at 4:39pm
Johnny
I cannot wait!
Your site looks very nice by the way.


Posted By: silence2long
Date Posted: 06/March/2005 at 2:33pm

Johnny I just re-read sections 11 and 12 and followed the link........ I know nothing about bankrupty because is has always been a non-issue for me.

The reason that I thought that he was able to bankrupt the student loans is because of the conditional discharge....to the tune of $9600.

I think that is a pretty good shake for him considering this clause,

[10]     Mr. Cummings made an assignment into bankruptcy on October 8, 2002. His liabilities totalled $28,997.84. All but $170 of his liabilities arose from student loans. As of October 8, 2002 he owed the Provincial student program $6,327.84 and the Canadian Student Loan program $22,500.00.

Please correct me if I am wrong............when he pays the $9600 he will then be discharged.........the $9600 is 1/3 of what he owes........it will not collect any interest....$9600 is 9600 ???  And after that he starts anew...once the bankrupty clears.  The return to school only prevented him from getting a total discharge of the student loans???

 



-------------
silence is a form of fear...fear of the unknown...has kept me silent too long


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 06/March/2005 at 3:08pm

 

 In bankruptcy, there are only two ways out - and thatis discharge or discharged with conditions attached. Int his case, conditions were attached.

 There is also no mention of what the trustee has recieved from the bankrupt as contribution to the lenders. The case clearly stipulatyes payment of an "additional" amount of $9600. There is also no mention of the Province oposing anythig at all. This was only a hearing based on the Canada student loan.

 Yes, when the $9600.00 is paid, the discharge will be absolute. Is it only a percentage of the debt? That remains unknown becasue of the missing information inthis case. The court rulled that an "additional" payment "to the trustee" of $9600.00 be paid. what was paid to the trustee as contribution, if any?

 At the end of the day, dude is discharged once an additional $9600.00 is paid to the trustee.

Call the superintendant of bankruptcy in Ottawa and quote this case #. Their office will tell you.

 

John LeBlanc
The Canadian Financial Wellness Group
 
Tel: (902) 464-8727
 
http://www.cfwgroup.ca - http://www.cfwgroup.ca

  

 



Posted By: silence2long
Date Posted: 06/March/2005 at 3:32pm

Sorry........my mistake.......I thought that was all the information.

I thought that was the point of why you posted it Johnny.... to show that it was over-ruled and that he didn't get an absolute discharge.

I thought you knew the outcome........I am not interested in calling the superintendant of bankrupty.

I guess I read the hearing from an unknowlegeble point of view that the additional 9600 was in addition to the amount that he had paid in the past on his student loans

Thanks for the correction.



-------------
silence is a form of fear...fear of the unknown...has kept me silent too long


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 06/March/2005 at 4:05pm

 

 Silence,

 I was not correcting you.

 There is only one point as to why I posted this piece of information and it was part of  my answer to a question asked by Hunter2. This person wanted to know by case examples that outline how these hearings are adjudicated and decided. So, I posted this information that gives great detail as to how a motion for discharge works.

 I am not a bankruptcy administrator, therefore, I do not profess or work in within those borders. Top better answer your questions as to outcome or amount, it would be better if you consulted with one who actually has access tot his particular case - such as the Superintendant of bankruptcy, The HRDC, Attorney General of Canada (Department of Justice).

 

John LeBlanc
The Canadian Financial Wellness Group
 
Tel: (902) 464-8727
 
http://www.cfwgroup.ca - http://www.cfwgroup.ca

 

 

 



Posted By: silence2long
Date Posted: 06/March/2005 at 4:26pm

Johnny,

I realize you posted it in response to Hunter.......it was interesting to read........thanks for posting it.

If anyone has the time to call the superintendant of bankrupty and is interested in what they have to say....please post up.....

I leave in the morning before their I imagine 8:00-4:00 office hours and arrive home later than 4:00....so it leaves me out of the loop.  My lunch break is split in two chunks which leaves it impossible to go to a payphone 20 km away........to hold on the I presume again an automated telephone answerer.......... 

I know I am pestimistic in finding the answer to this burning question, but it is my reality......... I call it uninterested in calling the superintendant.......... so if someone is optimistic about finding the answer than great.



-------------
silence is a form of fear...fear of the unknown...has kept me silent too long


Posted By: Hunter2
Date Posted: 06/March/2005 at 5:07pm
silence2long
My impression is that it was not the return to school persay because the original judge discharged it totally. However CSL appealed and this was the new set of terms put forth by the adjudicator.
I "think" that what happened here is that it was a conditional discharge based on the unique circumstances of this particular case. Obviously the two governing bodies disagreeing...the first ruled total discharge whereas the second ruling makes it look like it was 1/3 payback. But from my understanding of what was posted..yes 9600 is what he owed and no interest would NOT continue to accrue on that amount.


Posted By: reddragon
Date Posted: 07/March/2005 at 6:50am
Originally posted by Hunter2 Hunter2 wrote:

reddragon


Anyway these ideas just a tiny sampling of ways to make things better. We can make it better and make our own luck.


And in the meantime, I understand why lots of students or ex-students look towards prostitution to solve their problems.  Let's be honest, being in this situation, when it's a question of survival, it's easy to make unethical choices when your back is against the wall.  Either way... hard to find a reason to live.  I think I need help.


Posted By: momof2
Date Posted: 07/March/2005 at 7:36am

red

hang in there.  what kind of help are you looking for ?  maybe we can help steer you in the right direction. 

a reason to live ?  i'm sure there are plenty.  we can help you figure them out.  if you want to talk, email me at mailto:csdmomof2@yahoo.ca - csdmomof2@yahoo.ca .  it'll keep my mind off my problems for a while, and i'm a pretty good listener.

 



-------------
professionals built the titanic but amateurs built the ark...


Posted By: Hunter2
Date Posted: 07/March/2005 at 8:10am
Red
Hang on its so difficult when you are down and life is so bleak. When you cannot find reasons to live its time to reach out. Please e-mail me at cavanaghhunter@yahoo.com if you need someone to listen. Or reach out to family/friends/your doctor. Please take the time to reach out to someone.


Posted By: nago
Date Posted: 07/March/2005 at 11:45pm
take me with you


-------------
http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2sn9.jpg


Posted By: polyhymnia61
Date Posted: 08/March/2005 at 1:07am

nago...please.

I hate to say this, but no one is going to read your posts and offer to save you. People tend to run from people who consider themselves losers. It sucks, but that is human nature. I've been there.

You can only save yourself.

Poly

 

 



-------------
Home is where you are allowed to prosper.


Posted By: lola
Date Posted: 08/March/2005 at 10:39am
Red
The fact that you are here is a positive sign. Please know that life
is worth living - but life can be very difficult at times. You aren't
alone. I am sure that many people on this site have had the same
feelings at one time or another. The most important thing is that you
find some way to express yourself, find someone to talk to and get
advice from, and find some way to make yourself feel worthwhile -
even if it is volunteering at the food bank or animal shelter.



-------------
Lola


Posted By: hunter
Date Posted: 09/March/2005 at 5:34am
Lola

I was just thinking about what you said about volunteering at the local animal shelter.

I did this for a couple of months, it was a really rewarding feeling. I loved it.

But my boyfriend made me leave there
seems to me that on several occasions - only 2
I would bring home puppies that needed someone to take care of them and I made them part of our family.
I am not even allowed to go visit the shelter anymore

Everytime we pass the shelter, he looks at me, and says "don't even go there".


Posted By: kwelmm
Date Posted: 09/March/2005 at 6:06am

The best thing about volunteering at the animal shelter for anyone...is that the animals are not judgemental and they will listen to everything you have to say.....it's great...I've never volunteered at one before...but pets are great therapy!!!!   

Hunter...that is funny about your boyfriend saying that...

 



Posted By: Hunter2
Date Posted: 09/March/2005 at 6:09am
Red&Nago give yourself some time and take Lola's advice. It could make all the difference in the world.

Lola..great ideas.

Hunter thats cute! The HS makes me cry..hubby would prefer me not to go anymore either!


Posted By: reddragon
Date Posted: 10/March/2005 at 12:59pm
The only thing hold me back from going over the edge was my boyfriend and he just broke up with me.  Need help. 


Posted By: kwelmm
Date Posted: 10/March/2005 at 1:08pm

Reddragon...if you want to email me...please do...I don't mind at all...I realize you don't know me from a stranger...I'm a good listener and like to help others out!!!

Break ups good or bad are not easy!

Send me an email....kwelmm@yahoo.ca.



Posted By: momof2
Date Posted: 11/March/2005 at 2:42am

red

i can totally relate.  years ago i went through hell and my fiance was the only one keeping me sane and then he left, no explanation.  feel free to email me as well - mailto:csdmomof2@yahoo.ca - csdmomof2@yahoo.ca .  kwelmm and i may be strangers to you but we are both good listeners and sometimes talking can make all the difference in the world.



-------------
professionals built the titanic but amateurs built the ark...


Posted By: hunter
Date Posted: 11/March/2005 at 4:41am
reddragon

Most definitely take momof2 and kwelmm's invitation and talk to them.
I totally know what it is like to feel as though you are at the end of your rope and then more bad stuff happens. I have been there on too many occasions.

For me it was about ten years ago, and it was at a bad time, I was feeling as though I had no reason to get up in the morning, and for many days, I never did. I think I stayed in bed for 4 days, what can I say it was a bad time.
When I did finally venture back into the world, I was walking around like a zombie, and I happened to see this newspaper ad that hit me like a ton of bricks.
The heading was "DO YOU NEED A REASON TO WAKE UP EVERYDAY". It was screaming at me. Then it went on to talk about getting a puppy and it talked about all the benefits of having a pet. So off I went to the Humane Society.
I was single at the time, and did not have to answer to anyone. Did I mention that I was living in an apartment that did not allow pets. Like I said I was not thinking clearly.
I came home with this beautiful puppy, who I named KAOS(it was the way that my life was in at the time).

But thinking back it was the best thing that happened. The puppy got me out of my depression and I started liking my life. It was fun too, taking the puppy to the park, going to the fastfood places and ordering for two.

What I am trying to say, is people need different things when they are feeling down in life. If you have friends talk to them, talk to us on this site. We are all there for you. For me, it was getting a puppy. This cute little pup changed me life back then so much.

take care and let us know how things are with you



Posted By: hunter
Date Posted: 11/March/2005 at 4:44am
Just to add

I did have to move out of the cheap apartment and into more expensive housing where I could keep KAOS, but things worked out for the best.

Kaos is in a better place up in dog heaven
but he was soon replaced by another puppy


Posted By: Hunter2
Date Posted: 11/March/2005 at 5:01am
reddragon
Please be careful. Sometimes it helps to get it all out even to a stranger. When my daughters father left me I wanted to die, I thought no one would ever love me again and that I was no where near "good enough" to be a mom.

One day I broke down at school and a woman walking by stopped to see if I was ok. I was crying so hard I could not talk. She told me it was going to be ok. I spilt my guts to a total stranger and she just said that someday it would be allright and to just hold on. That was 9 years ago. I thank her in my head every time I think about it because my impulse to run way from the pain and end my life was very strong. But I held on and slowly it got better. Things made me happy agaiin, small things.

Life is worth living. Time and perspective are everything. Hold on red...it will be allright. Talk to someone...please...I know you can find your way out.


Posted By: reddragon
Date Posted: 11/March/2005 at 7:24am
Thanks for your responses.  It reassures me a little.  The overwhelming feeling is still there.  I went to bed around 7pm... but I can't get all this off of my mind.  And it's just so invading...

Thanks for the support.



Print Page | Close Window

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.07 - https://www.webwizforums.com
Copyright ©2001-2024 Web Wiz Ltd. - https://www.webwiz.net