Mesonic,  that Ms. Edwards seems to be a popular gal around here.

Is there any way you can speak with the CIBC and have the confirmation of enrollment forms processed?  I would push for this--Explain all of your attempts to the bank of how you tried to remedy the situation.....that has to get you somewhere!!  I would hope!!

Enlighten the bank to the collection tactics of Ms. Edwards, too!  Someone at the bank has to listen.....Head up...shoulders back.....BIG SMILE..............You can do it!!!!!

Hi, thanks so much for responding! Yes Ms. Edwards is a piece of work.  I read the post by the other person who dealt with her.  I think I read a post from someone who dealt with Mr. Bersuchi too.  I can't believe these people can even look themselves in the mirror!  They should be ashamed of themselves.  I think I'd rather live on the street than be employed in a job like that! 

Anyway, I've tried to talk to the CIBC before but get nowhere.  They insist they never recieved the forms.  They even told me they would launch an investigation but I never heard back from them about that.  I suppose I'd better try again though.  I can't believe that banks can put people through this.  They are ruining people's lives and don't give a damn.   I will try calling them again tomorrow and see what happens.  Perhaps if I resend forms to them they might do something.   I HATE banks.  I think if and when I ever do have money and have paid off my debts (its gotta happen eventually) I will keep my money under my mattress. Hahaha   Oh I'll also use some  to take out contracts for Ms. Edwards and Mr. Bersuchi!  Kidding...although its tempting.

Hi!  Its so nice that people respond here.  Thanks, it really makes me feel better that there are understanding people out there that don't just want to mock me or make me feel i am some sort of social pariah because of my student loans.  I'm so glad I found this site.  I really am terribly distraught about all this especially because this is all unnecessary since my loans were supposed to be in interest relief while i'm in school.

I am sure you are right about the Royal Bank as long as I pay my bills to Royal Bank I'm sure they could care less what the CIBC wants from me.  Something should really be done about those people at Collectcorp though I was so disgusted, angry and upset after speaking with them.  The man even told me that all of my finances were his business because I owe money to the Crown.  He also demanded information about my Father and how I got my credit line and if he co signed the credit line etc.  Then he started saying if your Father can go and get you thousands of dollars to go to school he can pay off this debt to the Crown.  He also said I should have used my credit line to pay off my student loans while I was in school!  I told him my Father had nothing to do with my student loans so this was his business.  He said it was his business and that my Father must have a perfect credit rating and could get the money!  Can these people get away with this!?!? These people are really awful...

In the meantime I guess I'll take Kwelmm's advice and try speaking to the CIBC although I'm doubtful it will get me anywhere.  Should I send some money to these collection people...like $20 or someting or just ignore their calls?  God I don't know what to do...I can't have another conversation like the one today though I'll seriously lose my mind!

resend your confirmation of enrollment forms by fax and also by registered mail.  also send a copy by interbranch mail at your local CIBC branch.  send copies every two days until they confirm receipt.  or, if you have a fax machine at home loop it through your fax and send it all day long.  i bet they call to confirm receipt of that in a hurry .

email and write a letter of complaint to the CIBC ombudsman ( look on the homepage of this website for the  info).  be polite yet let them know you're not impressed.  something about how you've been dealing with CIBC for so long and have always been impressed with their level of service yet are discouraged to see that like the many customers who had their confidetial information mistakenly faxed to some poor autowrecker in the states, you are forced to deal with their incompetence and are disgusted at the lackadaisical attitude of their employees who seem to have no interest in helping you resolve this situation that they have created.

that ought to get their attention.  cc the letter to the local paper of your choice and whoever you can think of that might be able to light a fire under these people.

(sorry, mom is having a fed up with other people getting screwed over kind of day...i tend to get - what am i looking for - firey when others have to deal with the fallout of someone's incompetence)

momof2

Wish you lived.... like next door to me.....      Here is me...cut and paste....this is great....

Momof2, Thank you so much.  That all sounds like a brilliant idea.  I am going to get copies of the enrolment forms from school today and start sending them right away.  I will also write to the CIBC Ombudsman.  Do you think there is any possibility I might get this recalled to the CIBC.  That is all I really want.  I have always fully intended to pay my debts when I finish school I just don't think its fair I should be sent to collection and abused by these people when in reality I've done nothing wrong...I'm only going to school to improve my chances of being able to pay my debts for god sakes!!!  Anyway, thanks for your help.  I will give it a try.  Should I be telling those Collectcorp **** this is what I'm doing???

mesonic

anything is possible, depends how much noise you make and how badly they just want to get rid of you.  the key is to complain to the right people, and never lose your temper.  document everything and dont take no for an answer. 

off topic but a good example.  my mom bought a silver rattle for my daughter from birks.  she made it clear the rattle was to be used, not to be a keepsake.  it wasnt cheap.  at 3 months, my kid broke it.  sent it back, they repaired it after giving mom a hard time.  got it back, it broke again.  so i held onto it for over a year, getting mad every time i looked at it.  my mom tried returning it to the store, they wouldnt to anything.  i got ticked off a few weeks ago and emailed birks, told them how disappointed i was with the service and the quality of goods they were selling etc.  three days later my mom got a call to bring in the rattle, they replaced it  and the girls at the store were very nice to her.  two years after the initial purchase, no hard time, even an apology.  so persistence can pay off.

silence, i live in the middle of nowhere, my neighbours are deer and moose and a few farmers.  i wish i had some folks around who i could talk to, probably one of the reasons im here so often.  anytime you guys want to talk, i'm around.  i'll have to look into getting a yahoo email or something so we can yak and not take up space

persist persist persist

nothing worth having comes easy, as they say.

momof2

me too.(rural)...about 3km from small town... last few days home sick/with kids...-25 ish today... so glad to be indoors. That's why I have been on during the day...normally it would be just in the evening, and recently up far too... late at night.  Email would be great...let me know how we could exchange that.. I have a hotmail.

grr guess i cant do it that way.  i do have yahoo im, you can email me at mailto:csdmomof2@yahoo.ca - csdmomof2@yahoo.ca

original, no ?

Hi guys, thanks so much to everyone for being so nice and helpful.  I have contacted the CIBC ombudsman...or at least a representative in his department...they are promising they are looking into it and will be contacting me soon.  If I don't hear from them by next week I will call back.  I am really hoping they see it my way and recall my loans.  In the meantime I've received two more messages from Ms. Edwards at Collectcorp to which I have not replied.  I will wait to hear from the CIBC first.  I mean really all I'm asking for is what I was entitled to...that my loans remain in good standing and interest free status while I'm in school.  Not too much to ask I don't think.  BUt we'll see...I'm not too hopeful but at least the ball is sort of rolling.  Do you think I should just ignore the Collectcorp calls until I've heard from CIBC or answer them and tell them what I'm doing.  I'm just reluctant to get back on the phone with them again and have to put up with further abuse.

I'm at the computer a lot...I'd love to chat anytime...

K.

Mesonic....I wouldn't bother explaining to the CAs what you are doing...that just gives them a chance to try and BS you some more about whatever they think they know.  Hopefully, when things are rectified , CIBC can drop the bomb on the CA they employed by mistake.

I hope it all works out for you

I'm at my comp. a lot too....and probably view this site way too much!  I wouldn't mind chatting with you all.......

guys

im on and off my puter all day so feel free.  my email is above, my yahoo messenger info is in my profile.  the more the merrier !!

thanks momof2

I just updated my profile to include the email address

...I will mostly be on in the evening.... if there are others too, please just look me up....

mesonic,

Hang in there.....lawyer you say...??  Think of the insight this gives you into how these people are breaking the law....how Collectcorp continues to manipulate and provide false information..... I consider them EVIL....I would not call them... unless it were to string them along until you can get this worked out for yourself..(recalled to the bank)..

I wonder if this gem is still there?   Mabelle Shiwoku ??  Could she have gotten married to Mr. Edwards ????  She had to be my absolute favourite of all time...the one I have spoken about in other threads... the one that threatened to call my neighbour to come and check on me because I was not taking her calls....you see... it really didn't matter if she called the neighbour....that was the flag for me... that she would be commiting an offense against me had she did this... so I asked her just exactly how that process would work since I was on a rural route.... well you have a 911 number don't you ?  I said yes... and presto... she told me that it was not that hard to look up the neighbour.....I said and you would do this ???  She said "YES" I said have you done this before???  She said "YES"..."How do you think I am explaining it if I haven't done it"

I said, "well guess what honey....I am recording this conversation"

She told me that I was not allowed to record without her permission, so I told her that I am pretty handy with a recorder I'll figure that out. 

Next..I spoke to her... senior manager... presto...I had a settlement !!  Faxed right to the CIBC bank... the bank manager was also interested how I got a 1000 knocked off... I wouldn't doubt she made a call herself since it was a CIBC VISA to begin with.

Anyways.... to make a long story short... I did not have a recorder, but think I will look into it....

Hey if this works for anyone......try it out !!!  But actually use a recorder

Silence2long....that's too funny   .  I have to try that the next time I get a nasty call from the agent I deal with...

Love it whereto

If anyone can get the people that have been abused by Collectcorp together and file a class action you might see Mrs.Edwards and her employer doing some interesting hand springs.

Some Info that maybe of interest to you.

I believe Mrs. Edwards use to be an "instructor" to new collectors at Collectcorp.

Collectcorp has a collection manual / handbook intitled "prohibited practises in collecting student loans" it seems this is used to show their clientele e.g. creditors how sophisticated they are in collecting debts.

Supervisors are always in earshot of collectors.

Electronic notes can be changed and back dated. Far be it for the creditors not to know this...LOL...

Complaining to the HRDC or Ministry responsible usually gets a response from the collection agency that implies that you are a liar  and this is played up by the collection agency.

The executives at Collectcorp are Nicholas Wilson, President & CEO, John Tilley, VP.

 Observer,

 "I believe Mrs. Edwards use to be an "instructor" to new collectors at Collectcorp."

 ..just a collector.

 "Collectcorp has a collection manual / handbook intitled "prohibited practises in collecting student loans" it seems this is used to show their clientele e.g. creditors how sophisticated they are in collecting debts."

 This is called the third-party PCA directive - accompanied by a copy of the Collection agencies' act in that specific province.

 "Supervisors are always in earshot of collectors."

 Yes, but do they often break rules as well, no?

 "Electronic notes can be changed and back dated. Far be it for the creditors not to know this...LOL..."

 A collector cannot change the notes once input has occured. This is something that would have to be done by the technical end. The usual thing is that collectors are both told and are intelligent enough to refrain from entering incriminating or controversial notelines. This is how it works, as you very well know. This way, it is less of a hard cost - and laborious effort to cover up.

 "Complaining to the HRDC or Ministry responsible usually gets a response from the collection agency that implies that you are a liar  and this is played up by the collection agency."

 Wrong.

 "The executives at Collectcorp are Nicholas Wilson, President & CEO, John Tilley, VP."

 Correct. But what are they going to do? Do you think that they will take your call, listen to your grievance, and make everything all better?

1. Your right about the supervisors John, they are there to ensure that collectors make the calls, not the quality of the calls, but the dollars earned.
2. What I meant to sat about complaining to the HRDC or Ministry is that collection agencies respond by painting the "debtor" as a liar.
3. As far as the executives of Collectcorp they are insulated, they have plausible deniablity, but they do know what is going on as well they have worked as collectors in eigthies. As well a letter to the executive that is cc'ed to your lawyer or from your lawyer as well as cc'ed to HRDC & Ministry responsible for collection agencies with back up will usually work much faster than most channels. I've seen it- it works.

Oh and on the electronic notes, systems such as CUBS and others have a backdoor that yes an IT person can enter and change notes and dates. And yes collectors know better than to incriminate themselves with derog notes. But there are times the backdoor is used for certain "fixes"

Anyway the collection agency industry needs to be cleaned up or we should have legislation such as The Fair Debt Collection Act (USA).

 Observer,

 CUBS allows no access for collectors to fudge or remove notelines. Nor does TACT.

 It has to be done carefully by the technicial support group that handles the system in the office(s).

 Collection agencies paint debtors as liars in all cases. It is the only way they can program themselves to do what it is that they do.

 The CUBS system is what a couple of agencies use now. NCN, CBCL, and some small local collection outfits that have been opened up by former employees of CBCL who have left due to the centralization issues in the past.

 Yes, the crew at CCI know what is going on, of course. They dont get paid as well as they do by not knowing what is going on in their business office. Business as usual. It is the only one that cannot adopt change. If it were to change, then it would collape because fear is the only thing they can really sell in most cases. The funny thing is that it is not really a tangible product by any means.

 Lastly, to solve an HRDC issue, you don't need a letter of direction from a lawyer. I am not a lawyer, and I work productively with them all of the time on behalf of others. If I need a lawyer to do anything for me, or my clients, it is all amatter of a fax and phone call. I have legal representation in every province and both territories. In the USA, I have a few there as well.

 Johnny

 Kwelmm,

 How is your debt predicament going? You made one or two postings..and miraculously, it was solved. Do share with us!

 Johnny

Johnny,

The lawyer reccomendation was one that I thought might be helpful to some people. Worked for a number of people I know. You are very knowledgeable about the collection industry and its players.

What do you think about the new MSO being put out to tender.

Oh, by the way what is your take on the Tran Vs FDR case in 2001 where FDR was saddled with a $25,000 judgement for harrassing the debtor. And in your opinion would a class action work? 

Johnny,

If your tone is sincere--I don't mind sharing.  I've made many posting regarding my "debt predicament".  It's no longer a predicament--it's being handled just fine

Thanks for asking

 Kwelmm,

 Good ., I was just wondering. If I wasn;t sincere, I wouldn;t have asked.

Sometimes it is hard to tell with the written word--i apologize!

It just seems hard sometimes to feel supported in here.  I try to give the best advice I can that will benefit others.

 Advice giving is good , Kwelmm. The downside to advice giving is that it is situational. When two people describe the same type of problem, one piece of advice may not fit the issue. Advice is situational, you see. it is easy to tell someone not to worry about something, or don't call the colelctor back because ..; just because it may seem all too familiar. There may be underlying issues that were not addressed wher it may worsen if that same advice is applied.

 The real issue is that it is virutally impossible to give advice that will solve most problems. it requires action - and people who live in fear are afraid to act. I teach people valuable life skills in different areas. Financial crisis is something that may seem necrotic to many due to it's toxic ability to reduce or deplete a person's self-esteem, confidence, integrity, and emotional strength, sense of direction.

 Observer,

 You wrote:

 "The lawyer reccomendation was one that I thought might be helpful to some people. Worked for a number of people I know. You are very knowledgeable about the collection industry and its players. "

 It is a way, yes. But as you know... they love to soak up a lawyer's time because in their thoughts, they see a debtor who has the ability to hire a lawyer as someone who has the ability to pay more than what is being offered. I can authenticate that easily enough. I have several cases in the works that have tried that approach previously - and it caused far more problems than expected. They are all patched up as of now.

  And yes, I am absolutely familiar with the players on the field, and the machine the operate. I am more involved with HRDC and those related sectors though.

 What do I think about the new MSO being sent out for tender? I think nothing of it, really.  I am not in the loop with the business planning of collection agencies. I, like you, already know what the business plans, marketing strategies, and the recipe for success are all about.

 Lastly, the tran vs FDR case was a clear cut and dry. You break the rules, you get your knuckles rapped. You continue to break them, you get your knuckles broken. You continue further, you are getting sued. That is is chronology of that case. It deserved it's attention and certainly set a precedent. I am surprised that the minutes of that case were less than 20 pages.

 As for class action ... you can muster hordes of people together to motion an action suit... but you best have the right mission. It would be a fight against government. As you are aware, government is exempt from punitive damages - so it has to be for the right reasons in the eyes of those who are hearing it.

 By the way, the Tran Case was missing that vital element called "a call for change". It was awarded punitive damage (only because it was non-government issue) and that was told in the transcripts that "this case will become a deterent for collection ageincies to walk outside of the colleciton agency rules - and letter of the law".

 Today, it is something that occurs - and is ever-so increasing. For some reason, I do not find that this case served as a deterent.

 Johnny

 As far as I am concerned, the end result wil likely be that the rate of commission will still be 17.975% for agencies, they will still be measured under the traditional performance grid, and CBCL will be battling one of the others to retain first place for some time to come.

 The NMSO is just a standard calling card of agency key clients, or so as CBCL likes to call them That good old key client workplan that  S.Sheather grandfathered in.

Steve Sheather...he now owns SCORE the scoring system used by creditors and the credit bureaus...I know him...haven't seen him in over a year. And I think one of the other "grandfathers" I. Sellors is part an parcel of the client plan. Oh well history.

As far as the class action. I meant going after a CA rather than the government. Some of my legal beagles have mentioned that if you have people getting the same treatment etc from a certain CA there would be room to go the class action route.

Anyway look forward to your postings Johnny.

 Steve is an inspiring and intelligent man, indeed. He is doing very well I hear.  

 The KCWP was considered the 11th commandment to CBC. I am sure that it still is to this day. That is one thing that was both refreshing and comforting at the HRDC level - knowing that the agency had CSL on a "Key Client Work Plan". It sounded good when it was introduced back when the electronic world took flight- and the agency got rid of accounts written up on recipe cards.

Re Class Action Suit ... Let's look at the issues at hand and discern the signs of the times....  

It is no secret that in some cases collectors break the rules, as you and I both know. When rules get broken, the first obstacle is the debtor's proof. The second obstacle is credibility. The third obstacle is the notelines on the debtor's file at the agency. The fourth obstacle being the fact that it is difficult to try a case for wrong-doing by a collector unless the misconduct or action violates the letter of the law - together with all of the provincial rules (CAA)

 As we touched on earlier, collectors know better than to incriminate themselves by entering notes explaining what they did when a breech in directives or law has occured. The last thing a collecotr is going to type in the notelines is,

"Called debtor at their place of employment. Spoke with debtor's employer and advised him/her that I am calling from HRSDC and notifying him/her of incoming execution order for a debt owing to the Crown. By the way, may I speak with Mr. Debtor please so we can try to work this out? "...

 Unless there is physical evidence that this type or racket had occured, there is no real case. It is a case of he said - she said and it gets tossed. In the eyes of creditors, collection agencies, litigating attorneys on behalf of a lender, etc.etc.etc. have no credibility and are often described as "individuals who do not want to pay their debt". They also say that the reason they are involved is for that very reason. 

 Most complaints are cases of he said - she said. However, The Crown is the one group that does take complaints more seriously than any other student loan lender. They are completely protected, mind you, but they do take things more seriusly.

 Prognosis:

 A class action suit better contain proof of the obstruction of justice and misconduct. Saying that a collector called my neighbor and left a "detailed" message for me is not going to win a case. Prove that the law was broken and you got a winning case. Tran did.

 I have physical proof that rules tend to be broken. I record every conversation I have with any offending sector on behalf of my clients.

 The way to go about a class action suit is a DEMAND for change. This will apply pressure on those that govern their industry (The provincial gov.) to ensure that policy is adhered to - and that they follow the letter of the law. 

 Now you know why I said that the suit will involve government at some level. The recipe for success is to demand change, and force the powers that be to make it happen.

 Johnny    

hey mesonic....

Glad to hear that your loan is going back to the bank...way to get on top of things.... !!!!

Good Luck in the future...   Keep on top of those loans... and don't let them screw you around from here.  I only wish I knew then what I know now....

Are we talking about Miss Bowen-Edwards?  She's my good buddy too.  Don't take any crap from her, Mesonic!!!!!  I was foolish enough to let her get to me at one point, but no more!

I feel especially bad for your situation, Mesonic, because it's yet another example of paperwork lost by the bank or related organization which I've read so much about on this website.

You have to talk to these Collectcorp people like YOU'RE in charge, not them - because you ARE in charge.  I even tried to be nice, but every time I offered them more (money, information, time on the phone, etc.) they only used it against me.

Be relentless with CIBC because yours is a case that deserves to be back with the bank.  I LOVE the idea of only calling Collectcorp after business hours and then being unavailable to take calls from them during the day.   I've never tried anything quite so daring, but I can tell you from personal experience that laughing at them on the phone really gets under their skin.

Oh isn't that Ms. Edwards the worst!  I really hate her.  I also dealt with some awful creature named Mr. Bersuchi.  He was awful too.  I also tried being nice when I talked to them.  I tried to explain my situation but they just mocked me.  I am not going to deal with them anymore.  I will leave messages for them and inform them of what I'm doing so they can't say I'm ignoring them or whatever but other than that I will not let those **** get me on the phone again.  What is the point.  I am not voluntarily going to put myself in the position of having abuse hurled at me.  The fact remains that I am a full time student and as such I shouldn't be in collection and regardless i don't have the money to pay them.  They can't get blood from a stone.  I have nothing.  I can't even pay off what I owe the school for tuition becuase of the CIBC's refusal to help me and my ensuing bad credit.  Its a huge mess.  I will continue my attempts with the CIBC but I'm not sure if I'm going to get anywhere...thanks for the encouragement though.