ok so scotiabank called me today and informed me that i had until tomorrow to settle my csl in full or it would be forwarded to collections.  i informed them that there was no way this could be accomplished and commented that their letter had taken 13 days to reach me ( had to get in a dig there).  i asked about collections - what to expect - they did not know what agency nor did they know how long it would take the ca to start contacting me - days, weeks, months was the answer i received.  she did tell me that nicole was in charge of delinquent accounts and would be calling me every 2 weeks ( from scotia) for my osl to check up.  i said i hadnt spoken to nicole for months - i had tried to keep in touch with her but was always getting someone else.  but she mentioned something about my file had to go to the government first - is that because its a csl ??

there is no way i can pay anything on my loans right now - we are struggling to pay our bills until the new year when things should even out again - thank goodness for hubby's overdraft or we'd be screwed right now.  as it is i am behind 2 months on my visa payments, the sacrificial lamb of the mass of financial obligations before us.  heat is more important, and i have 2 choices here - wood or electric.  dont kid yourself - wood aint cheap, especially when you have to pay up front and it has to be cash.

was told by a trustee type that im "creditor proof" because i am not working and have no wages to garnish etc.  he suggested i ignore my creditors until i am working.  is this a good idea ?  i know my credit is shot with my loans in default but is it smart to duck them or talk to them and tell them the truth - they have a better chance of getting blood from a stone than getting anything out of me right now ?

i am unemployed and will be for quite some time.  no i am not receiving ei or anything like that - just cctb.  for those of you who dont know me by now, i live in very rural ontario with no access to daycare and our unemployment rate is around 35%, with disability around 20%, old age around 30% which leaves 15% working.  and when i say very rural i mean population under 400 people in a very large area - like 20 km by 20 km.  there are three places to work - the lumber mill, the bush and driving a truck, none of which i am qualified for.

my health is deteriorating - i have carpal tunnel and chronic depression, am stressed to the hilt and my doctor now thinks i have chronic fatigue or fibromyalgia on top of it all.  i cant sleep, cant eat, cant concentrate for a long period of time, cant remember anything, have no strength to rip open a package of mini ritz for my kids.  i get exhausted after any form of exertion.  grocery shopping knocks me on my rear.  you get the idea. 

my loans are osl and csl, both from scotiabank, all from 1999 or before.  osl is 9K, csl is 20K.  does anyone know if these are govt guaranteed or are they bank risk ?

like i said, i cant pay on them at all.  not even ten bucks.  nothing.  i cant even afford to go visit my grandfather for thanksgiving right now.  i had to blow off my best friend because i couldnt afford to go for a freaking coffee.

i hate waiting for the ca to call and start harassing me.  when they do call, should i be honest and tell them i cant afford to pay you right now and it might be five years before i can get a job and start paying my loans ?  should i play nice, play stupid, or play dead ?

is it possible to get your student debt cancelled due to medical reasons ?  i have a friend in bc who said this might be possible depending on medical circumstances.  would getting government types ( mla, mp, mpp) involved help my case any ?

johnny, can you do anything for me at all ? 

this is new territory for me.  i have had a job since i was 13, worked part time in uni and college, worked summers in college and then had my job fall out from under me a few weeks before graduation.  could not find a job at that late a date.  was broke and stressing big time.  had to go on welfare for a few months so my heat wouldnt get turned off.  my family cannot help at all.  then boyfriend (hubby now) wisked me away to a new life and a new start but the job he had lined up also fell through.  ended up caring for grandpa ( parkinsons, very very advanced) for a few years, not getting paid, but on IR so that was ok.  married, had 2 great kids and now am up the creek in a leaky canoe with no paddle.

hubby cannot help financially - we are struggling as it is.  i just dont know what to do.  i see my doctor on monday and will likely have to go through another heap of tests, which stresses me more waiting for the results.  since its more than 7 months since i finished school i cant even qualify for federal permanent disability benefit.  it feels like there is nothing i can do right now.

advice please ??

sleepless in the sticks

momof2 I feel very bad that this is happening to you in a great country such as Canada.  There should be a way out for someone with your magnitude of difficulties but there isn’t. I don’t see the difference between your situation and that of a serf living on a feudal estate who has borrowed money from the lord and now cannot repay.  The lord shows no mercy. Modern debtor laws were supposed to prevent this form of peonage and indentureship.  momof2 this is not your fault.  Your situation is the result of a country that in many respects has a view of the student debtor that are rooted in the 16^th century. You are being subjected to barbarism.

My account has been in collections since 1992 and at Justice since 1993.  My file has been in the execution phase since 1998.  They filed for a judgment and illegally added between $35,000 and $50,000 to my balance.  It’s all illegal of course but we are dealing with criminals here.  But I have survived. 

The following points are just ideas derived from my own experience combating insanity. 

Mentally you have to take back control of your life.  The first step is to recognize that you did nothing wrong. R. D. Laing is a good source for comfort and self-esteem as his books focus on how to survive in a world filled with insane expectations and evil people.  After that I would read Michel Foucault.  Knowledge is power.

The next step is to prioritize your physical health.  I had all of the symptoms except for carpal tunnel that you describe about 10 years ago.  All together they added up to chronic fatigue.  I am a firm believer in cause and effect and narrowed it down to one dehumanizing incident that had brought on the fatigue.  I focused intently on that incident and the people involved and reduced them to the rubbish they were.

Then I went into acupuncture.  Twice a week for about 4 months.  After this I had my energy back.  There may not be an acupuncturist near where you live but hypnosis works as well for this I have read.  Conventional medicine based on a mind/body duality did not work.

By “creditor proof” it means that you have no resources or wages that can be attached.  If you have none then they will go away and only reappear when you have something they can attach.  Their behavior is very similar to that of the cockroach.  Remove the food source and they will leave.  You need to stay off the radar as much as you can because each blip might bring them back.  The most important thing though as you start to recover physically and financially is to keep control.  Keep your money hidden and for your own family maintenance.  Once you are in a position mentally, physically and financially so that the health of your family does not suffer if you make payments then you may want to rebuild an institutional identity.

Just my two cents.       

mersan

thanks for the ideas.  next time i am in civilization i will pick up a copy of foucault if i can find it, if not ill order it and the lang book.

no accupuncture or hypnosis in my future - i live too far in the sticks.  i'm having a hard enough time convincing my doctor and my hubby that there really is sonmething worng with me - ive been going for bloodwork since november and am fed up with inaction, take your vitamins and get some rest as doctors mantra.  unfortunately, i have no other options - small town, not too many doctors.  but he is getting on board with my line of thinking here at last.  i try meditation but am often disrupted by the wee ones.

like i said, im not working and wont be for a while - no daycare and less than no jobs so i guess theyll have to wait.  im just trying to keep myself out of the hospital right now, my loans are not in my control anymore and the stress of the ca's in my future is getting to me a bit.  im trying to relax about it but im the type of person who obsesses over everything so...relaxing aint as easy as it sounds.

i think in going to go and hug my kids - better than therapy

The Laing book is better and cheaper as it more directly relates to mental recovery.  Hugging is great therapy. Just don't let the slime get you down. 

The mps could easily create a program where the educated but destitute work with their skills to help the less fortunate for which they would receive a living wage plus get credit for their student loans.  That would be more in the Canadian spirit. 

thanks lasergirl

i guess im just having a worse than normal week.  i'll keep you guys posted on how it goes.

oh yeah and to make my day even better, my hubby finally finished stacking our wood for the winter and the guy stiffed us 5 cords - over 300 bucks. and it will cost double that to run the electric furnace for 6 weeks.

argh ! 

actually, java, he does...

but i think showing up with it might make the guy drop a load in his pants...

might makle for interesting entertainment though.  ill let you know if the guy makes good or if he gets a visit from some angry guys with shotguns...

wonder if that would work with collections - nah, they'd have him arrested - but it would sure be funny to watch them all scatter with fear.

thanks hunter2

heres the update.  went to see my doctor this morning.  on top of my carpal tunnel and chronic depression i DO have chronic fatigue syndrome AND fibromyalgia.  talk about getting dumped on, wait its not that there's something wrong with you, EVERYTHING is wrong with you.  he's checking me over as well for my thyroid and diabates since they run in my family and i was getting blood wok done anyways.  i'm also supposed to see an environmental allergist since anything non-organic makes me sneeze, gives me a headache and/or makes me nauseous.  being me is so much fun.  while the doc thinks its great that i have a sense of humour about the whole thing, apparently i'm too stressed out for his liking and need to relax so he prescribed paxil...here's hoping it has some effect and doesnt make me feel worse...

hunter2

i hate taking any kind of medication- not even aspirin, and my doctor knows this, so he must think it will help - he usually goes the herbal route and ive tried changing my diet and thet hasnt helped.  i exercise every day and the fresh air is great but im not looking forward to winter.  mind you, sliding and snow angels can be fun - the kids are too young for skates, i think. 

the dosage is low so heres hoping.  and he wants to see me in 4 weeks to see how i am doing so here's hoping it helps and doesnt make it worse.  the possible side effects scare the crap out of me but if it can help stabilize my mood swings i'll consider it. 

i think im going to call him tomorrow and ask a few more questions before i start taking it though.  if i didnt have my kids i dont know what i'd do.  they are the best therapy but they cant fix this pile of crap i have to deal with.

anyone else taken paxil ?  id love to hear more opinions before i become a comatose zombie.  i really am not that great at taking drugs.  my iron supplement killed me and i had to stop taking it - so now i will have very low iron to add to my problems.

actually, i spent a few hours online researching paxil last night and i think the pitfalls far outweigh the potential benefits.  i dont do medication well to start with, so it would be just my luck i'd get the nastiest side effects out there.  talked it over with hubby and he's against my taking it - a few guys he works with took it and well, it didnt go very well.  plus, i dont really want to be a zombie with two small kids to look afterl.  we're hoping a few changes around the house will help alleviate some of my stress and am going to pursue some herbals to calm and soothe my spirit.

will keep you all posted on my progress, if any.

thanks for the support, encouragement and advice.

 For some people, Paxil does have some weird side effects. If you are not comfortable with it, you should ask your doctor to recommend a different therapy. These SSRI's are tricky drugs. The alternative to Paxil that many physicians prescribe is Zoloft or Effexor .

 The problem with SSRI therapy is the potential development of "Seratonin syndrome". This can be somewhat uncomfortable from what I have studied. Too much Seratonin is not a good thing.

johnny

if you were on SSRI therapy wouldnt the doctor keep checking your serotonin levels ??  i checked and this can be done with a simple blood test.  it would seem like the responsible thing to do, wspecially since SSRI therapy is supposed to be short term and not permanent.

 That is difficult to say. Some doctors push the medication to remedy or control what they think or diagnose is the problem. Seratonin can be checked witha blood test, for sure. Everything is ultimately up to you and your doctor. Some doctors prescribe SSRI's without ordering bloodwork first.

 Seratonin Syndrome is not something that is expected. It just happens as a side effect. If you take a specific drug that causes the syndrome, then you go to your doctor and get professional advice.

 You are right. SSRI therapy is generally a short-term program.

 Depression is always a tricky thing and needs to be treated with care. It isn't after all, a scape to the knee. Can a ten minute visit to the doctor assess if someone is chronically depressed and needs meds? You have most of the info available out there about this drug. If you have any doubts, see another doctor, or better, a specialist. Shrinks aren't all bad. Also realize that this drug is currently being investigated in the UK after it was found that the produced fibbed its research reports.

You might also want to know that Paxil (Seroxat in the UK) is known to lower libidos in women... an aspect that I would worry about!

http://community.netdoktor.com/ccs/uk/depression/coping/expert/article.jsp?articleIdent=uk.depression.coping.expert.uk_depression_article_2564 - http://community.netdoktor.com/ccs/uk/depression/coping/expe rt/article.jsp?articleIdent=uk.depression.coping.expert.uk_d epression_article_2564

There is also a discussion group that you might want to look at:

http://paroxetine.suddenlaunch2.com/index.cgi - http://paroxetine.suddenlaunch2.com/index.cgi

thanks zafire

actually, ive been dealing with the depression on and off for 3 years now, but lately its been getting worse.  and my doc knows my history quite well.  i have ups and downs, pretty much like clockwork at certain times of the year, and certain things always trigger it.  add the stress of a student loan in default and CAs lurking around the corner and, well the depresion isnt going to get any better any time soon.

i'm not thrilled with taking any medications since i have a bad reaction to most chemicals - additives, pesticide residue, any cleaning products, preservatives in food, the list is long.  my doc has referred me to an enviromental allergist - unfortunately it's quite the waiting list.  i'm going to try some herbals for my depression and mood swings a few weeks and see how that goes.  the obsessive in me is starting to reorganize the house, just for something to do.  my husband is begging me to stay out of his garage... 

as for the lower libido - unfortunately, i'm already there.  and the fibromyalgia doesnt help, either

what's happened over the last three years...lets just say that basically everything in every aspect of my life has changed in a drastic way.  socially, physically, mentally, emotionally, financially.  it's all different.  i wont bore you with the specifics.

to be honest, my depression is not my biggest worry - the chronic fatigue and fibromyalgia are ruining my life, my depression is a minor pain in the rear and its managable.  the pain and fatigue are making it difficult for me to function on a normal basis.  imagine your body encased in concrete - that is how i feel each and every day.  the plumber is here today to move my washing machine and dryer to the main floor - an attempt to make my life easier since the stairs wipe me out and with 2 kids i do quite a bit of laundry. so we are taking steps to try and reduce my fatigue.

my mood swings are not in waves, they can occur within minutes of each other.  my husband will often just smile at me and i will start bawling my head off.  i cry at commercials so i dont watch much tv.  most of the time, though, my moods are stable and i can catch myself before i snap.  its not like i am a raging hormonally unbalanced lunatic or anything.

and thus far the only medication i am on is a multivitamin, b12 for my carpal tunnel and my iron supplement, which i had to stop taking for a few weeks because it upset my system - i have found a replacement though so here's hoping it will perk up my blood and i haven't depeloped anemia while fighting it out.

as for SAD, yes i suffer that as well.  but we have those lovely daylight bulbs in the kitchen (though i detest flourescent fixures) and i DO go outside much of the day with the kiddies.  when it's really bad i even break down and go to a tanning bed - it does wonders. 

so i dont sit around whining and complaining about my troubles.  i try to keep busy and try even harder not to let my problems slow me down, but when i need a rest  i take it.  i am not superwoman and have no desire to be in the hospital.  but for someone who was always very active and outgoing to be unable to lift a bag of potatoes or go up and down a flight of stairs without effort is quite the adjustment.

but i will definately check out marks new site.

Momof2,

I am really glad that you have a supportive husband to help you through all of this... One thing that has helped me (and my swings) is keeping a faily good diet, that is a Mediterranean diet ... lots of fresh green vegetables, lots of "blue" fish, olive oil, little red meat, no processed food. Cutting out sh*t like potato chips and Coke keeps me steadier as well and my body happier. Java is right, 15-20 minutes a day of direct sunshine to the face is essential.  Getting vitamins and minerals from fish and veggies is definately way better than taking supplements.

Java, sure, clinical depression is something very serious. It is just that sometimes I wonder if the mental health industry and needs to make people into "patients" and "clients" to form a dependent cycle, not to mention meet this years sales forecasts. Did you know that they advertise Paxil on American TV? It says a lot about a country where you can't advertise condoms, but you can advertise a drug that significantly alters the chemistry in your head.

Momof2,

One more thing that I thought of: have you ever had your thyroid glands checked?

actually i think thats one he hasnt done - ill call tomorrow and see if my results are back and ask if he ran it this time - there was a ton of stuff on my requisition and my glasses were in the car...

why, what does it do ?

i love google

no zafire i havent had that one but i might ask if he can do it soon.  my thyroid levels have been within the normal range, but at the bottom end so thats why he checks it every three months just to make sure im not slipping and if i do slip below normal i can get treated right away.

like i said i have to call tomorrow and check my results anyways.  ill keep everyone posted.

nice to know you guys care ! 

I mention thyroid problems because it marches most of your symptoms:

The psychiatric disturbances which accompany hyperthyroidism and hypothyroidism, the two commonest thyroid disorders, mimic mental illness. People with an overactive thyroid may exhibit marked anxiety and tension, emotional lability, impatience and irritability, distractible overactivity, exaggerated sensitivity to noise, and fluctuating depression with sadness and problems with sleep and the appetite. In extreme cases, they may appear schizophrenic, losing touch with reality and becoming delirious or hallucinating. An underactive thyroid can lead to progressive loss of interest and initiative, slowing of mental processes, poor memory for recent events, fading of the personality's colour and vivacity, general intellectual deterioration, depression with a paranoid flavour, and eventually, if not checked, to dementia and permanent harmful effects on the brain. In instances of each condition, some persons have been wrongly diagnosed, hospitalized for months, and treated unsuccessfully for psychosis.

http://www.thyroid.ca/Articles/EngE10F.html - http://www.thyroid.ca/Articles/EngE10F.html

A friend of mine went through this, so that is why I am asking...

Good luck

funny, i've been telling my doc that i have these symptoms since novmber but so far my tests keep coming back within normal, but as i said before, on the lower range. 

not a good thing, waiting to be sick.

so here's an update, pathetic though it is...

my bloodwork was uneventful - my thyroid is still techincally fine but still on the low end of normal. he will do the iodine test when i go in next.  at least i'm not anemic.

and i wont be taking paxil any time soon.  siberian ginseng and st johns wort for a few weeks and see how they go over.

still waiting to get an appointment with the specialist - apparently the waiting list is very very long - maybe by christmas, if i'm lucky.

not much of an update, but thats all there is for now. i'll keep you posted.

Hang in there, Mom. Keep your friends and family close, ok. They are what everyone needs when times get stressful.