just wondering - if i declare bankruptcy, how does that affect my husband ??  i have my own credit cards etc from before we were married and he has a mortgage etc in his name only.  he works, i dont - i cant (no access to daycare.  curse the government and its constatnly underfunding programs in rural areas.  gotta love the country - no doctors, no daycare, have to drive 90 minutes to have a baby.  hell i dont even have access to 911 services - how backwoods is that ?!).

i know our credit ratings are seperate entities, just wondering if i can file independantly or if he has to file as well ( even though he is fine - we squeak by on his income).

any advice is always greatly appreciated as i am still learning about this stuff

thanks

I haven't gone bankrupt myself, but it is all around me...CL spouse & a parent. This is what I know about it.

You can go bankrupt by yourself. If you have joint loans or credit your spouse will be held liable. This is fine and these loans can still reflect in good standing(on his report) if the payments are kept up to date.

Your husbands income will be taken into account when calculating the household income and what extra you have available to give creditors.

When my spouse went bankrupt, it was a difficult decision to make, but the release of pressure, when it was over, was awesome. We have recovered fully from the experience. Keeping one of you in good standing is a very good thing. You'll be through this in no time. 

Also if you are legally married on the bottom of your credit history and his it says See also-XXX(Spouses Name). So there may be a reference to you in his credit report. I am common law so I don't have a reference to my spouse on my report.

If you go to a trustees office they will give you an information package that outlines the process and implications, you will also have a meeting to discuss your decision, prior to proceeding with the bankruptcy. I am not sure what province your are in but, each province sets guidelines on how many assets you can keep.

I believe that 2Laurel works in this field, so possibly she could provide some additional information.

we only have one credit card that is joint and it is in good standing - never had a late payment or anything.

we are legally married, i havent pulled my credit reprot yet but will check it to see if it says see also.

i am in ontario and will start research on the process shortly.  i dont want to file but i want to see if it is an option.  when my csl's default my credit will be shot anyways but i hate not being able to pay my debts.  i have always been responsible and have paid my debts in full in the past only to have circumstances bite me on the rear and subsequently rack up the debt again.  i guess i have bad karma or something.

i have no assets, no rrsps or gics or anything like that.  i own nothing.  he has a mortgage and a vehicle lease payment and a line of credit all in his name only.  he's able to pay this stuff but it is tight every month.  we are trying to sell the house to get out from under the debt load but the market is stagnant where we live.

i wonder why they would consider his income when i'm the one in financial do-do.  if he had the extra cash he would pay it for me - that's why he maxed out his credit line in the first place - to pay off three of my outstanding balances.  unfortunately things got really tight and the credit cards took a hit so the cycle perpetuates itself yet again.

hopefully 2laural will see my post and offer whatever wisdom and advice she has.

i wish i never would have got that first credit card.  and i wish i never would have gone to school.

Mom,

Your husbands income is taken into consideration as the trustee looks at household income, all monies available to support the house. They will want to know all income and all expenses. Clothing, entertainment, food, household, coffee and eating out. I have heard that for some they have been required to submit any extra monies to their trustee. My spouse did not have to however.

The trustee is also an independent entity, they are not on your side or the side of the creditor, they will try to help you decide what is the best scenario for both of you.

I am not sure if your loans are bank or NSL, my bank portion reports to creditors, my NSL portion does not. If I had to decide, I know which one would be going to collection. As a purely business decision of course.

HI momof2,

My husband and I went bankrupt in 2000.  We had a very comfortable income between the two of us.  And I would have to say that our first mistake was also getting a credit card.  I hate those things!!!!  I know they can be handy to some, but for me it was the beginning of a nightmare.  

It was a very difficult decision, I was ashamed and couldn't tell anyone.    Our trustee helped us in every way he could (however he failed to tell me that my student loans couldn't be included, he had put them on as part of my debts, so I just assumed........stupid me) 

We both filed for bankruptcy, however they were seperate files.  Bills that were only in his name went on his file and mine on mine.  We paid seperate fees.   If I had had any assets in my name, they would have distributed their worth among my debts.  But I had none to worry about.  And now here I am 4 years later and a collection agency finally contacted me about a month ago to tell me to pay up my CSL.  I was in shock!  (Again, stupid me)  I was aware that my OSL had not been included, since they contacted me right away to tell me that I still had to pay.......I have my final payment next month......YAY me!  I was really looking forward to that....Til i heard about my CSL.   Well of course after four years of not making any payments....I owe an extra 3500.00!!  I wish they had contacted me like OSL did, I would have made payments, (although very small ones)  to them.  I could have at least covered some of the interest. 

Well I guess it was my own ignorance that got me here, so I am going to have to suck it up.  I am in a position to make the payments now, so it's not so bad. 

Back to the subject, I am in Ontario as well mom, but I have to say that going bankrupt was a difficult decision, but a wise one on our part.  We had attempted a proposal but not all were willing to comply.  I have since then gotten over my feeling of shame towards my bankruptcy.  With the rising costs of everything, and the low job markets, low minimum wage, what do they expect?  Just last year I paid over 2500 in heating costs alone?  Now considering people have to pay rent, food, hydro, phone, gas, etc......there's not much else to live on.  I have two girls, and they are growing like weeds!!!  They knew better than to ask me to go into some sort of dance class, or skating.....they knew there was no money for that.  I couldn't even afford to put them in the milk program at school.  I have watched friends get deeper and deeper into debt, and they have what I consider a great income.  But still there is not money for them to put aside for their kids schooling or whatever....(they got a lucky break though and were abled wipe their slate clean) 

If you decide on bankruptcy, make sure you research.....Ask questions, make your trustee explain everything!  You are already aware that SL's can't be included, unless you are out of school for ten years......(wish I had found this site sooner)    It sounds to me like you are struggling enough with your sl's, if you can wipe the slate clean with the rest.....it's a bit of the weight off your shoulders. 

thanks for the encouragement guys - i really appreciate it.

ive started looking into consumer proposals and bankruptcy and will definately do my research before i even make an appointment.  i have made so many mistakes in the past i definately want to get this right now that i have kids to consider.

if i can avoid bankruptcy great, if not oh well im not going to stress about it like i was.  but the sleepless nights still continue knowing the CA's are going to start calling soon...

maybe i should go out and get an answering machine...

2laural, country girl thanks for the feedback

the only income i have is my cctb which is what has been paying the bills thus far - but its getting really tight really fast.  i cant afford car insurance so i dont drive right now.  my girlfriend invites me out for lunch and i cant go because i dont have a lousy fifteen bucks.  and we dont have an extravagant lifestyle - heck we dont even have cable or a satelite dish.  i am hoping my td visa will let me make smaller payments for a few months until things level out around here - and if they give me a hard time i guess i'll have to do a consumer proposal or let it go to collections.  and things will either level out or spiral downward out of control.  

stress - yeah i have lots and lots of stress.  but the more i read the more i learn.  knowledge is power and knowing im not the only one makes me feel a bit better.  and heres hoping that ill be able to start sleeping better soon.

i will definately look into all my options before i do anything.  2laural, are you really familiar with the ins and outs of bankruptcy ??  i might have a few questions for you if you wouldn't mind answering them.

its my csl and osl that are giving me trouble sleeping.  i am trying to get a revision of terms on my osl - apparently i cant do this for my csl - i have already exhausted my interest relief and i dont qualify for debt reduction because they say my hubby makes too much money - which is a joke because we can barely pay all the bills as it is.  but i get off topic yet again.   when my loan defaults shortly i wont be able to pay it at all - maybe 10 bucks a month just for the sake of making a payment and to keep the CA's off my case.

as well, interest accumulates on you SL's from the date you file bankruptcy and throughout your discharge period (usually 9 months).  so even though it is a "peaceful time", it's still costing you big time.  so what happens is that you owe more on your SL's after your bankruptcy has been discharged then you did at its inception.

personally, i have extended my "peaceful time" beyond the usual 9 months (waiting for the charter challege decision). 

That was my mistake BigFatherA,  assuming that it was a debt to be dishcharged along with all the others...... I can actually remember my trustee saying to me "they haven't disputed it so it's probably included"  I had no idea what he meant at the time, ignorance is not an excuse i know....(I have since learned to ASK QUESTIONS IF i DONT' UNDERSTAND!!!)  But now I get what he meant.  I dont' think he had a clue what the hell he was doing either. 

Something that anyone considering bankruptcy would do well to bear in mind is this: he/she is not YOUR trustee. The trustee's function is to take care of the interests of the CREDITORS.

Trustees have to maximise the return on the creditors' claims. That's what they do. They are not there to help you. They are there to examine you for every possible route to satisfying the claims of their clients...your creditors.

DO NOT THINK THEY ARE ON YOUR SIDE.

You pay them but they work for the people who drove you to this indignity. And that's who they answer to.

Just thought I'd mention it.

 Absolutely.

I stand corrected, 2Laural.

My point remains, however. The trustree is NOT on your side.

The trustee is there to get everything you own that somebody else might think is not absolutely necessary for you to live.

Interestingly, in most places, what is considered necessary to live even by those vultures is considerably more generous than a bill collector would be.

Where the bankruptcy courts would consider a minimal degree of leisure and entertainment to be a necessity of life, your friendly neighbourhood parasite will tell you that buying a second hand paperback is a luxury and the money should go to them instead.

But what is really cool is what you have become accustomed to. If you are living a wealthy lifestyle, your "necessities of life" are considerably greater than those of, say, a single welfare mother.

If you're a corporate CEO used to living an opulent lifestyle, you won't lose your 15 million dollar mansion or your Mercedes. A welfare mother would probably have to liquidate her invalid child's TV, though.

Ain't life grand?

Another indicator of a 3rd world country....different laws for different classes of citizens.

 Laurel,

 True enough. The government has created it. That speaks a thousand words.

 On the other hand, they are not there to help you, as Laurel has pointed out. My big question is why the heck do they advertise that they exist to help people (other than to entice people into the program)?

 If they are required to address rights and responsibilites, then why do they "entice" people into the program(s) (insolvency, consumer proposals) when the person couls easily be "educated" enough about the system to avoid such filings - especially if it really is not to the best interest of the person? Bankruptcy administrators know enough about the system of student loans to offer "productive" advice as oposed to simply saying "go bankrupt and it will all go away - which is contrary to the truth.  This is something that has baffled many over the years.

 If a bankruptcy trustee or administrator were to reveal "truth" about student loan crisis recovery (as well as consumer debt crisis recovery), then there would be no need for bankruptcy. People need to know what their "real" options are rather than being told bankruptcy would save them. It is the people who can save themselves with the correct knowledge and awareness. Empowerment is the solution - and the costs for this are alot less than the fees for insolvency - and the hard costs associated with making wrong decisions.

Johnny

 Don't say it, Java....

 Gawd, I am still falling off of my chair laughing from one of your previous posts.

Like everyone else, trustees in bankruptcy are in the racket for the money.

And a very special kind of person you must be to choose that particular racket to make yourself wealthy. Sucking the last few dollars from a beleaguered, long suffering victim in order to liquidate what few pathetic possessions he or she hasn't already pawned to satisfy the demands of the other parasites. Telling people without hope lies to entice them to commit fiscal suicide and pocketing the last money these poor, damaged souls can scrape together.

But the best part must be the fun of treating those humiliated and crushed human beings to sanctimonious sermons on managing their finances and the evils of misusing credit.

As opposed to actually producing something useable by society or contributing in any positive way, those fungi on the body politic are in the same genus as the bill collectors and the "high risk" finance companies.

People, the sooner you opt out of the games they play, the sooner you can take a shower and wash off the filth that comes from associating with their ilk.

And, way to go Johnny, for helping these guys get past the scum they have to deal with.

 So, what does that tell the community?

 Put it on a big flashy sign ...

 " Hey, having debt troubles?

  Come in to speak with one of our agents! Some of us can't guarantee you that we will know what we are talking about when you ask questions, but once you sign on the dotted line, it doesn't really matter anymore, does it? Afterall, bankruptcy is our business.

we will tell you whatever it is that you want to hear."

And of course, who will listen to anybody who criticises or complains about the trustee?

The bankrupt is now marginalised and not considered worth hearing. Any reasonable concerns regarding the trustee's competence or integrity are dismissed because the source is considered to be apart from society as a social and financial leper.

When you are bankrupt you have no voice; you have nothing to say about anything because you have placed the management of your finances in someone else's hands. That makes you less than human, since those kinds of inhuman slugs only judge humanity by finances.

i want to make sure im getting this right...

i have no income to pay my sl's or my cc.  i have no money to file for bankruptcy and no assets to liquidate to pay my creditors.  even if they decided to sue me the judgement would not be enforceable because i have nothing.  they cant touch my husbands income or any of his asets so i dont have to worry about him divorcing my ass. 

in theory, i could start using my CCTB for looking after my kids, like it was intended ??  the governement wont touch it because its supposed to be an income supplement to look after my kids ?  i just want to make sure i am understanding the warped way this works before i do anything.  i dont even get a gst refund for them to take (my husband gets it since he actually HAS an income).

so filing for bankruptcy would not help anyway ?  because if its going to take the little money i have and not make anything better im not going to waste my time with it.  i can manage the stress when i can figure out exactly where i stand.  i can work something out with td until i can get caught up or let it go to collections too - my credit rating is going to be in the toilet anyways, why not make it a party ??  and BNS can screw themselves over the sl's (at least i dont have to deal with HRDC since the bank themselves holds my loans).  i can laugh at the CA when they start calling and ask for payment in full - i'm guessing they wouldn't like it that much and maybe they would stop calling me after a while.  i have call display - i dont have to answer if i dont know who it is. 

maybe i have the wrong attitude but i dont see how taking responsibiblty for my sl right now is even possible.  and my visa balance supplemented my ability to live in school - cash advance for groceries etc when my apartment was flooded ( couldnt afford renters insurance either) - its not like i went out and bought something fun or had fancy dinners.  fancy in my house is easy mac for the kids, which they dont get often but love.

can a consumer proposal help get my sl payment reduced to a manageable level ?  because even though the bank is definately trying to screw me part of me does want to try and be a responsible person here.  oh wait that thought has passed - why break my back paying a bank who posted millions in profits last quarter ?  like they really need my money ?

am i off base here ??  because i'm starting to think i'm a wee bit deluded.  i know if i had a job i would pay the stupid loan.  but i dont and thats not going to change.  am i just so fed up with the bullsh*t that i really dont care anymore ?