Collection agencies HAVE to accept whatever you can afford to pay them. There is a section on this site about collection agents which you should read. It provides alot of info about what collection agents can and can't do (like call your work).

Don't dispair over this, really, pay only what you can and there really isn't anything they can do, because if you don't have the money, don't own anything worth taking, have dependents, then there's not much that can be done to you. If it went to court, the judge is not going to tell you to cut your expenses by not paying rent and not buying food for your children. Collection agents make commission on what you pay them so they will threaten you with everything to get that money.

I could go on and on, so I strongly encourage you to read the posts in this website for more info, it's the best resource there is for student loan problems.

please talk to johnny at cfw 1-902-440-3679. he will be able to help you get your payments reduced to a managable level,

cargo

Thank you masy and CARGO1 for your responce. My situation still has not changed and the collection companies are still calling, the only thing I could do right now is declare bankruptcy but even that would only take away about $10,000 of loans Of course my student loans will still be there and THEY are the ones that keep calling my parents and asking them for my phone number so that they can call me.  Anyone got any info on how things are going in the courts to get the bankpurst reduced from 10 years to less???

Please don't make a mistake about the creditors HAVING to accept whatever you offer. What that really means is that they have to accept your payments (ie. credit them to your account). It DOESN'T mean that they have to consider such payments as satisfactory to manage the debt. In other words if you don't pay them according to the agreed upon schedule (prior to default) they can sue you any time they think that will ensure a better rate of repayment.

Once you're in default, they can sue you any time for the full amount no matter what you offer or pay them if it is less than Payment In Full of principal and interest and penalties.

From the moment you default, the full balance is payable immediately and anything less than that is a prima facie case for litigation. If they ever think that a court would order higher payments than you're making or if they believe that a seizure of accounts or assets would close the debt out or they see some avenue of recovery that is more lucrative than your payments...they'll sue. If you've given them enough information to do it with.

Tell them nothing. No addresses, jobs, friends, families, sources of income, phone numbers or anything else. Without that, they won't have enough information to be sure of successful recovery after judgment.

Good luck!

 The rules governing crown debt, and provincially guarantee loans do not apply to this system of enforcment. Third-party collectors working government guaranteed loans know the rules, and are still willing to break them as everyone knows - and shares their stories about it.

 So, if you have guaranteed student loans in default, they cannot sue you at any time. All efforts and resources must be exhausted first before the governments will consider excercising their legal procurements through justice.

Of course Johnny is right.

Those are the rules.

But, Johnny, let's face it. Those are rules and they break rules.

Those are internal regulations and guidelines, not legislation. They certainly won't tell us when they modify them. And even if it was legislation, few of us here are still naive enough to believe that they always obey the law.

Assume they will do anything they can to you and prepare your defenses accordingly. The law permits a judgment to be entered against you if you are 30 seconds in default of a payment. If they go ahead and file the claim, the court will give them their judgment. Not to take that into consideration is to count on their decency, compassion and humanity.

They have none.

In my case they sought a judgment even though I was making good faith payments while trying to get my affairs in order.  The Canadian Department of Justice is a very slippery and corrupt adversary.  In any game you prepare by acquainting yourself with the rules and regulations that govern  how the game be played.  Over the last 7 years that I have been entangled with Justice never once have they thrown a legal punch.  Senior counsel have obstructed justice, committed accounting fraud and engaged in a criminal conspiracy to deprive me of my rights. Paralegals have been intentionally negligent in the handling of my account and this constitutes criminal negligence.  They have changed my interest rate, they have knowingly inserted false entries and dates into my statement of account and then as a coup de grace they decided to cover everything up by setting up an alternate accounting system that hides their crimes. Their strategy is one of coersion and intimidation.  They will destroy me if I challenge them.  By them I refer to the Department of Justice in Canada.  So justice will be meted out. But this is not the justice that one might expect of a “civilized” and democratic nation.  This is the justice of the loan shark.  Let’s cut the pretension.  If their are no checks and balances the institutions and laws that protect us from this form of tyranny will break down. 

Canada as a democracy has failed.  I have lived abroad for over thirty years in Africa, Asia and Latin America as well as the US and have never encountered anything like it.  I had some African friends over the other night and we talked about corruption as Africa’s underdevelopment is usually attributed to how rampant it is.  By any standard that we came up with Canada lead the pack in official corruption and government malfeasance.  A while back I spent a few months in Addis Ababa which is the poorest place I have ever been.  I attended a couple of seminars where they were trying to educate the civil service on corruptive practices which in most part just involved various types of exchanges such as giving tea money for a service or giving priority for a token payment.  These kinds of practices exist everywhere including Canada.  And they do have their equivalents of Paul Martin who as Finance Minister directed substantial business to his private company.  If one though encountered a problem in a government office one could go to another level to have it resolved.  Also Ethiopians, as other governments in Africa are doing, are actively battling corruption and it is in this area they earn their high marks over Canada where there is almost no oversight of the civil service and zero accountability and transparency.  

http://www.waltainfo.com/conflict/articles/2004/jun/article3.htm - http://www.waltainfo.com/conflict/articles/2004/jun/article3 .htm  

I probably went off topic a bit but what is therapeutic for me is to put my situation in context.  I am a lifer and my account has been at Justice for about 14 years and there have been times where the educational and student loan system have driven me to incredible despair.  It has caused great stress in my marriage. Perhaps the biggest ordeal was suffering through this in silence.  There were moments where I blamed myself for my state of affairs. The people at justice seem to delight in criminalizing my debt burden and my inability to pay.  Whenever briefly I have bought into their world view is when the depression has become worse.  When I feel best is when I fight back.  Writing about it gives me satisfaction as I know they are lurking. 

I am calm now even though the big battle remains ahead.  It still preoccupies me but I know that when it is finished there will have to be criminal charges against those at Justice and HRDC who have broken the law.  This is the chance they take in litigating this.  They will be facing consequences for perhaps the first time.

The important point is that I have gotten through it and they have tried very hard to destroy me.  So keep your chin up.

laser girl,

 Contact me and let's talk. 

glad to hear i am not the only one struggling with depression and stress over these sl's.  anyone else not sleeping ?  we should all get together on msn and chat at 3 am.

BNS actually had the balls to call me today - someone i have never dealt with before, actually suggesting i could renegotiate my OSL for more manageable payments.  what is manageable when you arent working and have 2 kids ??  boy did i let her have it.  i tried asking for that three weeks ago and was told no way would they do that for me i would have to prepare myself for the fact that the loan would go to collections shortly - they wouldnt even take the lousy 40 bucks i could pay at the time.  lets see if the paperwork she promised me this morning ever reaches me.  she also had the nerve to suggest i take out a personal loan to pay off my csl - honey, if i would qualify and could afford the payments - wait a second, if i could afford the payments i'd BE paying my csl and osl -  i swear to god you have to be brain dead to work at BNS.

i have the lovely task monday morning of calling TD because i cant afford my full payment this month - had to replace a smashed light on my vehicle at a lovely 150 bucks otherwise i could scrape by as i have been doing.  im hoping they will be nice since i have been trying to keep up to date even though the card is maxed out big time.  i actually havent been able to sleep because im sweating being short 75 bucks on my visa payment.

how can i pay my csl osl and my visa on a lousy 250 a month ???  theres no way in you know where.  and that money is my cctb and i should be putting it away for my kids.  god i suck as a parent but i guess having a sane parent is worth it.

im kind of looking forward to going into collections - they have to take whatever i can afford to give them each month - even if it is only 5 bucks.  i am hoping to keep the osl out of collections but at this stage in the game im not holding my breath.

and my husband wonders why i cant sleep  - i keep telling him he was better off before we got married.  our house is also full of mould and we get mice in the fall and spring.  there is wet rot in the basement and a lovely musty odor that keeps everyone out of the basement.  the roof leaks, the foundation leaks, and we apparently have 2 years to get our kids into seperate bedrooms ( we are in a 2 bedroom house - and its a small - i mean small - house for two kids under 3). there is nothing larger in our area - we would have to add on - and we can't afford that either.  worse than that - my hubby actually has a mortgage on the place so we are trying deperately to sell it before the place falls apart.

miss mj, i know how you feel.  if you need to commiserate with someone, you know where to find me.

lasergirl wrote: God#mn any system that can be so repressive as todo this  to someone . F*ck them and f*ck their unethical tactics and constant mistakes. It'll be a cold day in hell before I have anything good to say about a bank and the whole student loan system. Take care of your kids first. They are more important than the gov't. I have no problem trying to do the right thing and pay what little I can every month but when the system repeatedly kicks you in the ass and criminalizes and belittles you then I get annoyed (well a little more than annoyed but I can't use those kind of words in this forum!!). They claim to have all these great programs to help s/l debtors but nobody seems to qualify for them. I am on your side in this matter!!!

I'LL DRINK TO THAT! 

Just so the lurkers don't get it wrong.. I'll be drinking water.. Can't afford anything else even if I wanted to..

Casey . .

lasergirl wrote: They claim to have all these great programs to help s/l debtors but nobody seems to qualify for them. I am on your side in this matter!!!

These programs are all well and good for those whose loans are still in good standing, but I have yet to see any decent initiative for those in default and struggling to pay back their loans.  The attitude seems to be to "let them rot in hell, and we'll skim off the rich creamy interest". It sounds so nutty, it's as if the 1990-1995 changes to the CSL program were scammed up as one major cash grab by the feds.

why is it that the government sees nothing wrong with the big six banks posting mind-numbing profits ( what was the number - 625 million profit last qtr by BNS ??  i forget - i was too stunned after hearing it on the news) but sees nothing wrong with gouging students and young parents trying to pay off our debts.  with what i paid into the system in tax dollars before i started working would cover what i borrowed for my sl's twice over and what i pay the bloodsuckers in user fees and service charges since i opened my first bank account would pay off my minivan.  my son had his birthday yesterday and i said screw my visa payment and ordered him a birthday cake and balloons.  you're only three once and i'll be damned but my kids always come first.  my credit will be in the sewer once my sl's are in collections next month so screw it - does it really matter if i miss a visa payment if my loans are in default ??  usually i try to keep everything current but some times you just have to  the system and do what feels good.

sorry to run on like that but it felt good.

Hi guys..

This is really sad though laughable at how stupid some highly educated people can be. Unfortunately this is what we are up against!

After "F'ing around with the mental health system for over 20 years and not really getting much help, I finally demanded and got to see a shrink.

What a disappointing experience.. not sure if I should  or .. 

She had the answer to all mine (our) problems..  That is according to her, none of us really have any problems.. 

1) - STRESS: "just a normal part of life and we have to learn to live with it."

2) - FINANCIAL PROBLEMS: "just get your finances organized and pay your monthly payment on your SL and it will not be a problem."

She didn't hear me when I told her it was hard enough to have a basic living, eat etc on what I got each month..  or at least the  replied sure wasn't very helpful "don't worry, you can work it out"

3)- FINAL SOLUTION: "I am here to help you.. I will give you medication to make you feel better. Then you will have no problem getting a job and everything will be OK"

I asked about medication and my fears of the problems and side effects.. Her reply.. "all medications are good, there is no problems with them. Just take your meds as we tell you and everything will be just fine!"

So in talking to me for less than 20 minutes, asking questions, not really listening to what I said,  minimizing my worries, concerns and problems, this person claim to know everything about me. Based on this she can make a diagnoses??? 

What a waste of time. This shrink (Alice in wonderland) has her head buried so far in the sand that she has no idea about real life..  (must be taking her own meds!) Sure, If I got her $100,000 per year, I wouldn't have these problems.. How about her living on my $9,000 per year? I'd like to see what problems she would have then!

Based on this experience, if this is a true example of the support there is for us, it's no wonder other people in power can't see or understand the problems we are having.. It really makes you wonder what we're hanging around for??

Casey . . (drowning in the sh*t pile!)     

being educated does not mean a person is intelligent or able to communicate or apply theri knowledge ( unfortunately).

definatley try to get a new shrink.  tell your shrink now that she is not being helpful at all - it might make you feel better telling her how useless she is and it might help her adjust her style and possibly help others that she sees.  i'm not suggesting a screaming rant but stuffing her degree in a trash can and lighting it on fire would be fun...but not polite

i am still struggling to get properly diagnosed after a year of tests.  depression, anxiety, mood swings, insomnia, fatigue, carpal tunnel, thyroid problems, sore muscles and poor memory, stress...my doctor is now looking at chronic fatigue syndrome or fibromyalgia on top of my carpal tunnel.  i think he's hoping once we can pinpoint what is physically wrong with me the other stuff( anxiety, stress, depression) will magically disappear.  did i mention my gp is way too relaxed ?  but he's the only doctor in town who doesnt just throw drugs at everything so though it might take longer at lest he will figure out my problem.  i just hope it doesnt take much longer

i have no access to a shrink right now and the area social worker is a birdbrain (not to mention she has a big mouth and since i live in a small town i really dont want everyone to know my problems).  the specialist i am trying to get in to see has about a four month wait period.  for now, these forums are my therapy.

so if anyone needs someone to talk to, feel free to email me.  sometimes just having someone listen to you can make a big difference.

hang in there - things have got to get better, right ?

my husband had an interesting observation last night.  he rarely says much but this made me think. ( this might ramble on a bit - sorry)

i owe the bank money - about 30K.  the same bank that posted in excess of 600 MILLION in profits previous quarter.    600 million/120 days=5 MILLION in profits per day - and they continue to systematically destroy my life by sending me to collections rather than negotiate in good faith.  oh feel sorry for the banks being victims of computer fraud and spending all that money upgrading their securtiy systems when my hubby was still defrauded of 600 bucks by an email transfer he never authorized ( the rcmp caught the guy and he got his cash back but thank god he had overdraft for the four months it took to get resolved.  when you live paycheck to paycheck a 600 mistake causes lots of problems).  oh feel proud to put your money in the bank they are a sponsor of the olympics or the theatre or whatever but how many grants and scholarships have they given to deserving students ?  how about some loan forgiveness for those of us who could really use it ??  if i can qualify for interest relief why cant i qualify for loan forgiveness or debt reduction ?  and what would possess a bank to give a 19 year old a credit card in addition to a student loan anyways ??  they really expect a family of 4 to live on 35K with today's cost of living ??  35K would be fine but once the government takes their cut its more like 24K - for rent/mortgage, vehicle payment, insurance, gas, hydro ( gotta love the way that bill has been going through the roof), gas/heat, phone, vehicle maintenance, health care ( dentist, glasses, medication.  not everyone has a health plan), oh and groceries too.  other bills - personal loans or credit cards, water bill, taxes, internet, cell phones, satellite or cable tv never leave much room for entertainment or savings.  none of which is even considered for debt reduction or loan forgiveness.  but the bank is trying to make things easier for students to repay their loans - sure, if you haven't missed any payments yet.  they post on their website that they have donated so many millions of dollars to charities over the last year.  should i pat them on the back for being so socially responsible when their policies drive people to homelessness, depression, collections and mental breakdowns ??  i thought we were their customers and they worked for us - not the other way around.  i try to navigate the websites to get info on my loans but can't - since my loans are before 2000 i cant access anything online, either at the bank (because i have no account for them to like it to) or NSLC.  so i have to sift through the last ten years worth of statements hoping that documents i need didnt get trashed in a flood.  i try to negotiate a payment i can manage but no one seems interested in a revision of terms.  and why is it that i always talk to a different person even though i request to speak with Nicole at BNS - she hasn't returned my calls at all this past month.  god forbid they hire someone who knows what they are talkning about - ask them about collections and they have no idea what you can expect.  the lst girl i spoke with suggested i get a personal loan to pay them off.  honey, how can i afford payments on a personal loan when i cant pay you. hello, lights are on but noone is home.

i cant pay them back.  not that i dont want to ( mind you the way ive been getting jerked around since graduation i must admit to not being in a hurry to pay them at all ) i just cant.  because the same government that allowed me  - no ENCOURAGED me - to get into debt with their student loan program is the same government making it impossible for me to get a job  .  i cant afford car insurance (government regulated ).  i cant afford daycare (government regualated ) if i could afford the car insurance to drive my kids the 45 minutes to the nearest daycare facility ( government funding cuts ). i cant afford to work for less than 12 bucks an hour to cover the cost of daycare - 35 bucks per child per day plus the extra gas driving to and from daycare and i will likely have nothing left of my paycheck to put towards my loans once the government takes its cut  - so i am stuck in a nasty downward spiral.

why am i losing sleep over this ?  i owe money and i cant pay.  too bad for them, they should know better than to lend money to students.  i have no assets for them to seize, no means of repaying my loan in the next three years ( once my kids are in school i might be able to get a job, providing my health permits it and the job market is cooperative).  and the bank has no desire to wait that long - send it off to collections and ruin someone else's life.  that doesnt mean im not a good person  ( i think he made me cry here)

if the banks would freeze interest rates on student loans at 1% they would still make money and it would be easier for us to repay them.  if they were more flexible with paymnent options maybe they'd get more of their money back.

if they dont want to play nice, why should i play with them at all ??  play nice or go to your room is what i tell my kids.  same goes for the banks and the collection agencies and the government ??  play nice or else ?  pretty soon no one will want to play with them and they can kiss their profits goodbye altogether.

sometimes the man has a point...

Try to take a cavalier attitude towards the whole thing. That's what the collectors want to do...destroy your peace of mind.

The fundamental principle of debt collections is: Make it more uncomfortable to owe the money than to pay it off.

Therefore, if you are going to suffer by meeting their demands, they have to make you suffer proportionally more if you DON'T meet their demands. If you will undergo pain to pay them, they will try to ensure that you have even greater pain if you DON'T pay as demanded.

Tell them, "Sorry, can't help you today. Anything else?" Be relentlessly cheerful. On the phone, it's only words. They can't do anything to you that they haven't already done. So do your best to honour your debts. Don't let them convince you however, that you owe it to anybody to cause your children to do without food, clothing, education, entertainment and medicine. Don't let them make you feel as if a tiny luxury in your life ( a movie, a few beers with friends, a pizza night with the family) is something your not entitled to. You ARE entitled to that much comfort and dignity. And that comes BEFORE meeting their payment demands.

No matter what your agreement, you have a right to live like a human being. You deal with that first. Then pay if you can. It was a loan. That's business. Companies deal with corporate debt in that way all the time. The banks are corporations, it's THEIR OWN way of dealing with business deals.

A bank will close its doors, lay off thousands of people and bankrupt hundreds before they will lower the salaries of their board members or their CEO. Why? Business. Those people know that you take care of yourself and your family first. Other considerations come later.

And you know what? They're right. Play by their rules and sleep well.

And Lasergirl? Thank you.

Let me make this point. The reason these abuses haven't become a major human rights issue is the fiscal-centred mindset that is typical of the Western world.

What I mean is that the only people who are being systematically abused here have first been excluded from consideration by society. Their abuse therefore is of no interest to anyone. No one cares about someone who is abused if they have first been reduced in dignity to "welfare recipient". No cares about your complaints if you are a "debtor". If you are a "bankrupt", your suffering is completely immaterial to anyone. Just pay your bills, get on the RIGHT side of the fence and maybe you'll find an audience for your indignation.

While you are one of the marginalised, you can press your face up against the glass, but they'll just pull down the blinds. Get inside where it's warm and the conversation will only be about where to invest and avoid taxes, because we "waste so much of our tax money on welfare schemes like the student loan give-away".

Human rights? Hell, they only apply to human beings. If you're not among the fiscally independent, you don't qualify as human.

lasergirl wrote: Hi Casey. I understand your frustration. I would suggest that you try again re: another counsellor. Perhaps your regular gp would have some additional info. I see a social worker at the clinic where my family doc is. I don't want to see another shrink (at least right now). The meds can help but they are only part of the therapy process. I don't think the goal of any kind of therapy is to have the therapist solve your problems for you. I would think that learning new coping skills and providing support is more appropriate. Please don't give up. I am trying to hang on as well.

The thing is that I know what my problems are and have taken enough programs on coping, managing stress, depression etc. that I should have my papers.. However we the consumers of these programs do not qualify for credits.. I don't want or need pills! That sh*t can really screw you up big time.. I don't want to be drugged.. If I can't think what is the point of living?

I know how to manage my stress and my life. I have accepted the way things are with my mental and physical health.. I could get along quite well if I could rid myself of the stress caused by various government departments.. CSL is just one, the major one causing problems. These agencies want/ demand paper work to tell them what the problem is.

As to seeing someone else.. that luxury is not available where I live. When you live out in the sticks of western Canada you just don't have a lot of choices. People with money can go to the larger cities, that is not an option for me.. Being poor makes it just that much easier to keep you down..

I only have a few more years before retirement.. If I can hang on that long, things should get better.. One would hope that the government by that time should finally understand how poor I am.. Maybe I'm expecting too much.. Maybe they will start a new retirement program that locks up old retired SL debtors..  Sure, it wouldn't make much sense, locking people up at $50,000 to $100,00 per year to keep them. I sure would cost a lot more and do nothing to recover the debts. Then, who said the government ever does the smart thing?

Casey  . . .

casey - i know what you mean about living in the sticks. i don't have the luxury or seeing a shrink without a 2 hour drive and a 4 month wait so...

unless the government will get their heads out of their rear ends im afraid anyone making less than 40K will continue to get screwed over.  and if you owe money they will screw you over again.  it will be impossible for me to get out from under my debt - so i am trying to listen to javaman and relax about the whole thing.  live first and worry later - if i can pay them great if not too bad.

a smart government ??  thats an oxymoron if i  ever heard one