After I graduated, it took me almost 5 months to find a full-time job that paid poorly. Of course, my student loans came due almost immediately after I found a job, but I was swimming in credit card debt (still am), and I made what small payments I could. A side issue, but what moron at every university decides to allow credit card companies into student lounges and centres to peddle their credit cards at young, unsuspecting students? I know it's my own fault for falling for it, but had credit cards not been readily accessible at my school, I likely wouldn't have accumulated the debt that I'm now carrying.

Anyway, my husband was paid off in December, and wasn't called back to work until the middle of March. Both CIBC and the National Student Loan Centre assured me that my income was sufficient for both of us to live on and make my loan payments. They didn't care that I had other debt, or that my husband's EI claim was bungled by the government (we didn't see any money from that until the middle of February) or that we were struggling to feed ourselves and put gas in the car so I could get to work.

Now, my husband is back at work and I found a new job. I've caught my CIBC loan up (almost), but I'm still struggling with the backlog on my National Student Loans in hopes of not having them sent to Collections. We're desperately trying to get our feet under us (dream of a house...a car that will run for six months without requiring major overhauling...some new clothes to wear to work). I'd love to know who in the world makes up the ratios that determine what THEY think YOU can afford to pay. I'd love to see a bank manager or government official try to live on my income and make all the payments I make without sinking further into debt.

I got sucked into the credit card thing too when I was in university. That turned out bad for me as well.

Regarding student loan payments, they don't decide on the amount you pay based on your  income. They decide on the amount you pay based on what you owe. That's one of the policies that has been critized and debated over for several years. Lord knows I've tried to negotiate a payment that wouldn't leave me hungry, but the CIBC student loan centre does not negotiate payments, at least they didn't with me and I'm very persistant.

Have you applied for interest relief? Contact CIBC about that, because everyone is eligible for that after they graduate.

Despite my attempts at keeping a good credit rating, I ended up in a collection agency and then credit counselling. I had to make a decision about having good credit but using pennies to take the bus, or having  bad credit and actually having some quality of life, and I chose the latter.

Having credit counselling on my credit record is better than bankruptcy, of which we can't apply for anyway.

Of course, if I racked up  thousands of dollars in credit card debt, I could file for bankruptcy no problem. How fair is that??

I realize that they don't base your  payments on your income, but on your loan. However, I didn't qualify for interest relief when my husband was off work because CIBC/National Student Loan Centre believe that my salary met and exceeded the minimum living requirements, and therefore, I didn't (and still don't) qualify for interest relief. I want to know WHO decides on this figures...for a single person, it's something like $1700 a month, I think. Which sounds like a lot, if you're not counting rent, other debt (they don't even consider other student loans with other institutions), gas, food, car insurance to get back and forth to the job that you technically can't afford because you're earning next to nothing after you pay your bills...and paying for your husband's food, too, because EI hasn't seen fit to issue his payments yet....

I'd love to have someone live on the income we had in January and try to make all the payments that they expected. Maybe then they'd see what real people have to go through to make these "small" minimum payments.

Hi Blue,

Yes...I know exactly what you are saying. I tried for so long to negotiate payments with Scotiabank and they wanted no part of it...it was all or nothing with those people...so my loan ended up going to collections and there was really nothing I could do to stop it. For 3 years I was living in unsafe apartments, working 2 jobs, had little to no time for my life, and ultimately let my career suffer (I am a software developer...there are so many of us around right now) because I was often too tired to concentrate. I was literally putting myself and my health in danger for the sake of making decent loan payments. That stopped when I got very sick in the winter and couldn't get out of bed to make a loan payment and this 'mouthpiece' from Scotiabank called me and told me how irresponsible I was for being late (1 day). That very same week I left the 'windowless-hole-in-the-ground' that I'd been living in, found a better apartment, quit my job as a waitress (every Friday and Saturday night), started doing all of the things I love to do, and let my loan go to collections. I decided that if my working myself to death and sacrificing wasn't good enough, then I was going to take care of myself first, and I do not regret that decision. Now, I'm still paying on my loans and my credit is screwed, but at least I am enjoying my life.

Don't forget to take care of yourself first...your mental and physical health is far more important, and lasts longer, than a bad credit report!

 Financial disclosure is a mandate set out by the HRDC and Provincial governments concerning these loans. The financial capacity and assessment detail is used to determine payment ability. The agencies request these only because they have to. When they get them, they use them as tools that can inflict even more pressure and stress. Just because some people who have fairly decent incomes does not mean that they can afford higher payment demands. The key is learning how to file them properly.

 Johnny

I have no trouble filling out the financial disclosure for myself.  Until 2000 I never sent them any financial info on my wife.  Up until 1998 they took a percentage of my income which was fine.  It was in 1998 when they demanded double the gross income I was making or they would seek a judgment.  Then in 2000 after my consumer proposal was rejected they wanted 2 times the income that was stated in the proposal and that was backed up with pay stubs, tax return and a summery of my life income history from the Social Security Administration.  I had no real income and sought the method created by the Canadian government and filed a proposal.  Then HRDC turns around rejects it and asks me to pay $850 a month which is twice or more than I was earning gross.  When I look at my statement of account and the way they have dealt with me it seems that things started to fall apart at HRDC after 1998.  Up until then all the entries and figures were exact.  I don’t think the present crew at HRDC even knows how to count. Then last summer they sent another financial disclosure form to me and said they would use this info to determine my payments.  But I have two examples from 1998 and 2000 in writing that once they get the info they promptly ignore it.  There may be a mandate to send the forms but there appears to be no mandate to follow the intent. 

 As you can understand, the government places mandates on borrowers and debtors, whether it be tax debt or student debt, that they state must be adhered to. Whether or not they use them is another thing. The only time the HRDC would see a financial statement is if a borrower sends them one instead of the agency (and even them it is sent to their third party agency), or if the account is being sued. The HRDC instructs borrowers to supply the agency with the financial capacity and assessment documents. Collection agencies are required to do one of 4 things for HRDC:

 1) Collect payments equating to 3% of the principle amount owed supported with a financial statement and income verification form.

 2) Collect monthly payments of any amount in the event that 3% of the principle amount is not possible (supported by the financial statement and proof of income)

 3) Refer accounts for justice (to be sued) in the event that a borrower is refusing to pay - and submit all of the mandated materials to substantiate inability to repay..

 4) Maitenance and housecleaning towards accounts to ensure that those who are unable to pay are really unable to pay, or are on some form of diability hold (long or short-term kits).  

Blue, I think I might be able to Help out a bit. I used to work for the NSLSC and CIBC NSC (both same company, NSLSC owned by CIBC). There is a loop hole to the interest relief program. They actually use a chart to determine if you qualify, and if you ever recieved The IR papers you could see the chart on the back. They basically look at your monthly payemnts on your loans, then they look at the chart which tells them what the maximum monthly income needs to be in order to qualify.  Here is the kicker, If you increase you monthly payemnts, then your income on the chart rises as well. When I graduated in 2001, I had a 24K loan, I got a job with the the loan center and learnt the tricks of the trade. when my loan cam due, I raised my total monthly payments to 800$ month, ( i couldn't, and still can't affort that). once they raised my payments. I asked for intrest relief forms. based on 800$/month, my 2,400$ monthly income qualified for IR. I have now the last 3 years on IR, (I keep re-applying.)  I save up money during the 6 months i'm on IR and and make a lump sum payment on my loans the day my IR expires.  I've reduced my loans by abou 7K so far and have yet to pay a cent of intrest.

You have to keep on top of things, or else when the IR expirest they might try and take the lump sum from you account.

hope it helps,