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lovelockdown 
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 Topic: Old student loan CRA/NCO financial.
Posted: 13/February/2013 at 6:20pm |
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I went to college from 1997-99 with two student loans totaling approx $9k between federal and Ontario.
I paid a few times here and there and used Interest relief way back when. The last time I actually spoke to anyone I believe it was 2004.
I've been getting tons of phone calls and a few letters from nco finanical about what I assume is the Ontario part of my loan. The last letter sent says I owe them $3200. I do not talk to these people. I don't want to deal with them. Can they continue to try and collect on this part of the loan? What if I send them a C&D letter?
As for the CRA they have withheld my income tax but not my GST for the past three years. They haven't gotten too much out of me but I'm going to say approx $5k.
Nothing at all showed up on the credit report the bank requested when I applied for my mortgage.
I have no idea how much is owed on the federal portion of my loan. I'm kinda scared to know actually. (would it be huge by now?) If I call the CRA and ask for a balance owing would this throw it back onto my credit report? Should I just let the gov't keep my taxes from here on until it's paid?
Thanks for any information.
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Posted: 13/February/2013 at 6:23pm |
The CRA would probably be collecting the OSAP Provincial portion, while the collection agency is probably going after the federal portion that was through a bank at the time. Read up on the forum regarding statute barred loans... http://www.canadastudentdebt.ca/forum_topics.asp?FID=90&SID=87382095az1ee13e71de827ed95f89742824074&title=collection-of-old-stats-barred-loans
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Mark OMeara
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https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024
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lovelockdown
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Posted: 13/February/2013 at 6:40pm |
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Oh ok. I have the two switched then.
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lovelockdown
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Posted: 13/February/2013 at 6:48pm |
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I've been reading and I guess it's too late here or my brain is just not working tonight because I can't figure out how to find out if my loans are stats barred.
If I call the CRA and ask for 'proof' of this loan will that put it back on my credit report and re-start the timing all over again?
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Posted: 14/February/2013 at 6:28am |
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CRA or any collection agency will not admit that a loan is stats barred. John Leblanc at CFW Group is good at helping to determine if things are stats barred.
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Mark OMeara
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SolveStudentDebt
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Posted: 15/February/2013 at 5:47am |
FYI: CRA doesn't do collection work for the Ontario government, other than income tax set-off. Limitation Assessment and Analysis is $130.00. Takes 30 - 45 minutes. Then, if you want to proceed with examination and discovery intervention we can open one up. Fee for limitation examination and discovery intervention work is payable upon completion (15% of the financial benefit). The only thing you pay to begin is a retainer for our hard and out-of pocket costs, which is small.
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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
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Royal-NCO
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Posted: 15/February/2013 at 6:24am |
Johnny, I mean no disrespect. I am sure the work you do is very good. However, in my case, that is a huge expense. $37,000 * .15 = $5550. Where am I going to come up with that kind of money? If a person has that kind of money at their disposal, then they are almost certainly dodging their debt and frustrating the system. This is a whopping insentive for me to figure out how to prove the limitation issue on my own.
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SolveStudentDebt
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Posted: 15/February/2013 at 8:09am |
Let's examine this from different perspectives here. 1. If I were doing work for you, and the labour involved was let's say 80 hours, and the out-of-pocket and hard costs on top for me were $800.00, and the financial benefit to you was a documented closure of the student loan in the amount of $37,000, what would this be worth to you? "Financial Benefit" is valuable and there is a price. The reaosn is because for me to provide it, I have to pay a crap load of costs and get paid so I can feed a child and live. I can show you how to do it on your own for a fraction of what an intervention (and time) would cost. But it is still a cost. Many people don't want to do it themselves because of the minefield that lies ahead waiting. People fear walikg through it and having their legs blown off if they make one wrong move. So, there are two options - Coaching and Navigation or direct intervention and, of course, we bear the risk. You can't just assume anyone who pays for a service and valuable analysis as someone who is frustrating the system. Interventions of this nature, and all analysis is as necessity importance as food and other essentials that people need to survive here. The system is frustrating you and forcing Canadians into a lifetime of servitude. People who come to me for limitation exams and discoveries are people who cannot handle having a debt outlive them, for one. Secondly, how can you justify a lawyer, or a lawyer justif commanding a retainer from someone in trouble in the amount of $5000.00, or even $15,000.00 to work for them and hope for the best? Good things cost money, even when people say they have no money. If they want something really, they have to pay for it. I however have been providing assistance to people on a pro bono basis, and when they get used to it they demand more and more. Then, when I draw the line they get spiteful and rant and complain all over the place about it.  Believe me, if someone I am working for decides to flip the table and attempt to maneuver me, or manipulate me to help them screw the system, they get one chance and then the boot follows. There is an online community of those who attack me daily. If the public knew what these people were all about it, what they do for a living, and how much benefit they got because of the system, it would say "WOW". Frustrating the system is this: Malicious acts and behavior towards my team, others involved, and the system. A lot of people are angry and very frustrated because of the system. However, causing harm or injury out of retribution for a wrong done by the system is not tolerabe. I can't work with and protect someone who behaves like this. It is that simple. No one can. Most people want to pay Royal, but can't. Plus, the demands on them by the system opress them further. A person's health and wellness is important above ALL fiancial issues. So, if I am going to contribute in saving you $37,000 and you want it bad enough, then the price is pretty darn good. Now, your interpretation of the "fee" is not correct. Interest accrued does not represent a "financial benefit". Fees can be paid in installments in some cases as well. Does this help you understand things better?
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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
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SolveStudentDebt
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Posted: 15/February/2013 at 8:23am |
Continued: So, if a person is gainfully employed, able to pay the student loan, is not in any financial hardship, and has benefitted from the education, then it goes without saying. If that same person all of the sudden lost their job and has not been able to find anything gainful to facilitate the management of the student loans, and the student loan issue escalated to a point that is unmanageable in the short-term and forseeable future, and the student loan system refuses to work with him or her on every appeal, then that is a very debilitating hardship. The down side is that not everyone can afford to hire or acquire assistance. That is a reality. If you truly are unable to pay anything, and can demonstrate to me that you are in dire need, then I would put you on a pro bono list because I still do the odd one for people who are in dire need and in poverty.
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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
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lovelockdown
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Posted: 15/February/2013 at 3:41pm |
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Ok, well the Gov't is Keeping my income tax.
My main question is this: If I call the Gov't and ask what is still owing for them to keep taking my income tax can that contact cause the debt to be put back on my credit report?
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lovelockdown
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Posted: 15/February/2013 at 4:07pm |
What is a limitation assessment and analysis? And what is examination and discovery intervention? What is this going to do for me?
 Johnny wrote:
FYI: CRA doesn't do collection work for the Ontario government, other than income tax set-off. Limitation Assessment and Analysis is $130.00. Takes 30 - 45 minutes. Then, if you want to proceed with examination and discovery intervention we can open one up. Fee for limitation examination and discovery intervention work is payable upon completion (15% of the financial benefit). The only thing you pay to begin is a retainer for our hard and out-of pocket costs, which is small. |
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Royal-NCO
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Posted: 15/February/2013 at 4:24pm |
Johnny, I don't for a moment question that the benefit you offer may be worth this money, and certainly I understand that you're trying to earn a living so you can support your family. However, I do question the ethics of throwing $5000 to you to solve a debt problem on one hand when on the other hand I am claiming I am broke and unable to pay my debts. My sense of morality sais I can't do this. If my difficulty is finding sufficiently well paying work to pay my debts, then I have just disovered $5000 of work for myself. I am going to get busy, perhaps with your guidance, and figure out this whole statute barred issue so that I can save that $5000 and apply it to the provincial debt which will never be statute barred. Or, am I really broke, or just stubborn, refusing to give in and pay a system that has errored hugely, refused to cooperate and fix their error, destroyed my credit, spread my loans out to a multitute of different collectors and has the gall to believe I should just quietly set this aside and be the dutiful "nice guy" and pay off my debt + a huge amount of interest. I'll point out one other thing. Here again you've demonstrated the weakness in the overall system. On one hand a person is broke and unable to pay, on the other hand they need money to pay for the help to clear the debts they can't affort to pay. The odd lucky one might get free service; the rest are screwed unless they're smart enough to figure out how to be their own advocate.
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Royal-NCO
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Posted: 15/February/2013 at 4:26pm |
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.... but if they were smart enough to be their own advocate, would they be in this position in the first place?
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SolveStudentDebt
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Posted: 15/February/2013 at 8:04pm |
I am working an all-nighter so bear with me here Royal, I totally get your point and do not disagree with you. I don't hold any bias towards logic and rationale. People have to do what they have to do in order to survive. If I could provide this for everyone free of charge believe me I would. I have helped thousands over the MANY years at no cost, and even paid out money from pocket during the process. That is just who I am. People have to do whatever they have to in order to survive. If people need help they come to me for it. If they cannot pay for it I understand that but I can't help everyone who needs help unless costs are covered. There are people who need basic staples like bread and milk every day though. They can't just walk into a store and tell the clerk that they need these items without any money. Perhaps sometimes the clerk will give it for free from time to time in cases of extreme. Or, if you need car repairs. How do you pay for those if you don't have the money? The reality is that people find resources somehow to address the cost of needs. What I provide is a need and a luxury when it is said and done, of course. So, if the value is there, and people can see the cost benefit clear as day, then they try to obtain the solution. There are also people who just don't want to pay money and feel that they are entitled to free stuff. I encounter that sort of behavior here and there. Man, you would be surprised how many people contact us and try to pick our brains for valuable intelligence and tools while posing to be interested potentials. This is a common occurrence in the service industry, of course. Consumer behavior and culture is quite a study. I have been working with it and profiling it for years and as new generations emerge new things come with it. Weaknesses in the system are abundant. But so are it's powers. For instance, the system (government) has unlimited financial resources at their disposal to make life as difficult as possible for you, legally and all. This is why people are afraid and unwilling to accept an armwresting challenge by a four-hundred lb gorilla. No one wants their arm ripped off, that's why. In the U.S. the same crisis exists for student loan borrowers. I just opened an office in the U.S. recently. People who need service find ways to pay for it. The problem in the U.S. is crazier than it is here in Canada. Larger population and private student loan providers on top of the American Department of Education (Federal Loans Program). High tuition costs are everywhere. Anyway, the services I provide in respect of limitation issues are: 1) Coaching and Mentoring (one-on-one or virtual workshop) 2) Direct intervention For interventions the fee payable upon completion is based on the "financial benefit". That would represent principle once outstanding only and nothing but. In cases of intervention we bear the risk pretty much though. If is not barred then there is no financial benefit, therefore no fee is due. For coaching and mentoring the cost is based on time one-on-one on an hourly rate ($130.00 and expect to invest a minimum of 2 and a half to 3 hours), or in an interactive online classroom workshop as a group at an even lower cost. This is just for limitation issues. We have systems set up for all other areas to, such as debt reduction, demonstrations of hardship and benefit seeking, tools, Resolving Justice Canada Issues, private agencies, consumer protection, First time home buying while living with student debt, financial literacy for post-secondary students, and so many others.
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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
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Royal-NCO
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Posted: 16/February/2013 at 1:42am |
Johnny, I am not suggesting even for a second that you should be working for free. I'm trying to point out this odd paradox that people like me find ourselves in: needing money for help when lack of money is reason why they need help. "The reality is that people find resources somehow to address the cost of needs." + (another comment you made earlier about wanting it badly enough.) If this were true in my case, I wouldn't be in the position I am in right now. I would have found a way to clear the outstanding interest with Royal Bank so I could qualify for interest relief all of those years ago. Unfortunately, I was relying on the food bank at the time just to fill my belly and the interest accumulated until it was too large and too late. Nontheless Johnny, you are right, you deserve to paid for the service you're providing.
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SolveStudentDebt
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Posted: 16/February/2013 at 8:29am |
Yes, I understand your position very well. I know it is tough and there are a very number of people who can actually engage a limitation discovery intervention as such. Some people have resources though but also a serious hardship or grievance that warrants it. Much of which I describe here a lot. In most cases I coach and mentor people, which costs less. But people have to invest the time and attention as you can imagine. Sometimes it is easier to have a professional like me just go in and do it for them so they do not have too spend hundreds of hours doing and completing the process (not to mention overcoming the obstacles that sometimes cause clutter in a pathway to this discovery). Cost is everything and I understand your debtate about it. It is real and you are right. But you have to see the world from both sides of the fence. Lets use bankruptcy as an example. People say they cannot afford afew hundred bucks or a thousand, and so forth. Then, these people walk into a trustee's office and pay them several thousand dollars up front or over time in a consumer proposal (or straight out bankruptcy). You have even mentioned about going bankrupt. If you have no money, how can you afford to do it? Would you have to borrow money from family or help from your spouse (if this is the case) to do it? If you have no financial resources at all and had to pay the trustee a percentage or all up front up front the liklihood is yes, you would. Even to make payments on the fee monthly. It is just how it is and that is how the the consumer culture functions a lot of the time. There are people who do not want to pay for assistance for whichever reason, with or without the ability. Then, there are people who do pay for products and services of value. Also, there are people who are of the "require more but pay less mentality". The fourth category is the segment that wants everything for free and think the world owes it to them for whatever cause or suffering they'd experienced. Some go as far as to steal things. It is what money and a hunger for it or crisis caused by it does to people. The student loan indebted segment of the consumer population is a very difficult one to service. It is not the people though. It is the conditions and emotional trauma because of those conditions of enslavement and indentureship that has been slapped on them by the system. It is barbaric to put it simply.
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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
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lovelockdown
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Posted: 16/February/2013 at 12:50pm |
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If no one here can answer my question:
My main question is this: If I call the Gov't and ask what is still
owing for them to keep taking my income tax can that contact cause the
debt to be put back on my credit report?
I can gtfo and let you people have your little love fest.
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lovelockdown
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Posted: 16/February/2013 at 12:56pm |
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I know I'm cranky, but look I'm a single mother and I haven't been able to work since Sept. My life is not easy. I am not looking for any hand outs... I just need to know if I call the gov't if it will reset onto my credit report. I really don't want to mess that up.
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Royal-NCO
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Posted: 16/February/2013 at 3:35pm |
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Actually Johnny, as I said before, the right approach for me remains the same. Patience. In the meantime, live my life, and make every reasonable attempts to improve my circumstances. Save every extra penny I've got. Pay off the debt? Why? Its done as much damage as it can possibly do to me I am better off saving every penny I've got so I have options available to me in the future. Whether the final choice is to solve this limitation issue on my own, and pay off my provincial debt with the saved money, or hire you to do it for me, remains to be seen.
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SolveStudentDebt
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Posted: 17/February/2013 at 1:35am |
Hi Royal. I understand totally.  Lovelockdown - A telehone call shouldn't prompt any credit bureau reporting. If the matter is ancient and has been reported previously and reached it's legislated reporting limit, then it isn't permitted to be reported again, unless of course the loan is renegotiated and a new loan is opened in it's place.
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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting. solvestudentdebt.com
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Old student loan CRA/NCO financial.