oh crap, panic about 10 years

 Sunny,

 10 years from the day you finished studies. That is the bottom line. By going back to school, you reset the limitation period's clock.

 Johnny

hey guys,

thanx for responding so quickly

I'm at a loss, I don't understand how going back to school WITHOUT financial assisstance, WITHOUT applying for assisstance, without ANYTHING to do with my student loans, can have ANYTHING to do with this '10-year clock'

Is this some sort of joke? I mean, I even worked FULL TIME while going to school FULL TIME in 1998/99...I didn't and COULDN'T apply for interest relief at that time as my loan was ALREADY in default...

Is this some sort of weird 'f---You' law that has been created specifically for those of us stupid enough to think that we were somehow entitled to education despite growing up poor?  Is there some sort of similar law applied to 'regular' bankruptcy that might help me to wrap my head around this? 

Can anyone show me exactly where it says in the bankruptcy law that the clock 'resests'?   I believe you that it exists, I would just like to see it and reference it as I think I'm gonna 'join the fight' and write my MP (for starters...will contact CFS to find out what else we as 'loan-victims' can do to help...and hey, if anyone here has some experience with this, please share with me, let me know what I can do to add my humble warrior spirit to the mix  ) 

thanx for reading my rant, and your responses are really appreciated!

sunny

 Poly is correct here. Also, the government has record of anyone attending schoo. It is recorded data when an educational institution enrolls a student. The government has "flagged" access.

 Johnny

hi,

sorry, i should add...i'm not questioning that the rule exists (i mean, why should i be suprised...)

just quite confused about WHY it exists and what, if any, explanation is given in the law..

thanx

sunny

okaaaaaay,

um, i guess i just don't speak legaleese, but it does't seem to me that the statement is clear about re-setting the 10-year clock if a student returns to school.

it says 10 years from THE date....it says nothing about the potential for THE date to change....it simply makes no reference at all to a student returning to school after THE date...is this an omission on their part? and if so, does this leave the rule up to interpretation...i.e. could it be arguable?  and if it isn't arguable, is there a case in which it has been clearly explained?....Has there been an ACTUAL case since this 10-year rule was implemented in which the person trying to declare bankruptcy was SPECIFICALLY told (by whichever authority that ACTUALLY created/interprets the 'rules'...not just their trustee) that their 10-year clock had been reset because they had gone to school (WITHOUT any assistance and/or interest relief from student loans)...

I apologise if this has been explained in a previous post, and if i'm still not clear after this i will post questions in a different subject, as this is not really an 'urgent' need...but i really am looking for clarification if possible (simply for my own sanity as a generally logical person)

I suppose i am mostly confused because the bankruptcy act is clear about "clock-resetting" regarding acknowledgement of debt...they have (mostly) clear definitions of what defines acknowledgement, and they are (mostly) clear about what happens when one acknowledges the debt.....so, even if i don't agree with their rules, i can at least be sure of them...

am i missing something? if anyone can point me in the right direction (examples, actual parts of the act that maybe i just havent seen...or even previous posts that i haven't come across that already dealt with this........i have tried looking, but havent looked at ALL the old posts...a little overwhelming)

thanx again for your responses and for your patience

sunny

 sunny,

 In section g (ii), it states that within 10 years after the date on which a bankrupt ceases to be a full-or part-time student.

 If you have student loans in default, and you have finished studies on June 1, 1999, you could apply for bankruptcy on June 1, 2009. Now, let's say that you decide to attend further studies which commences on mar 1, 2004, and you finish on, let's say, Mar. 1, 2006. You cannot apply to have the student loans discharged until Mar.1, 2016.

 So, for people who have defaulted their student loans 10 years ago, and have not attended any further studies (full or part-time), they can apply to have their loans discharged. If you go to school within this 10 year limitation, the clock resets.

 The acts, and their content confuse many people. This particular matter seems to be the most pressing on the brain, similar to the barred legislation and limitation period. It doesn't state clearly in the act that the date of default is the day that the HRDC reimburses the bank. The acts are basedon case scenarios, however, they do not elaborate enough.

 Johnny

I'd like to have a legal interpretation of this:

178. (1) An order of discharge does not release the bankrupt from

(g) any debt or obligation in respect of a loan made under the Canada Student Loans Act, the Canada Student Financial Assistance Act or any enactment of a province that provides for loans or guarantees of loans to students where the date of bankruptcy of the bankrupt occurred

(i) before the date on which the bankrupt ceased to be a full- or part-time student, as the case may be, under the applicable Act or enactment, or

(ii) within ten years after the date on which the bankrupt ceased to be a full- or part-time student; or

According to the information that HRDC has, I ceased to be a student in May of 1991. (I actually withdrew earlier in the year with no loans that year).  For a number of reasons, student loan not being one, I filed for bankruptcy in October of 2000. My discharge was issued in August of 2001. This discharge would have been granted 10 years and 2 months after I officially ceased to be a student. I was under the impression that the loan had been included in the bankruptcy, at least until I filed my first income tax return after the post bankruptcy return and had the refund of $1400 taken by HRDC.

I realize a loan involves the return of the principal and interest, I made an effort during the better years and have paid them $18100 on a $16680 loan but due to a 10.625% interest rate and default time, I still owe $15900...... I have paid over $18000 but have only reduced it by $780!!! It hurts to think about it....

Any suggestions? Comments?

hey all,

i know this question is dragging on a bit, but i was just wondering...

has anyone actually ASKED a reliable (i.e. someone who is actually qualified to answer the question properly) person FROM whichever division of the government it is that makes/enforces/interprets the Bankruptcy Act for clarification on this section?

Has anyone consulted a lawyer on this? (not that anyone here could afford that)

I mean, I guess that BDO Dunwoody would know their stuff, but I still wouldn't necessarily trust any trustees interpretation of this section of the act, especially given that every trustee seems to have a different answer...

And Johnny, you posted the particular section of the act, and then in the next post state your interpretation, but you don't give any indication of how exactly you got to that interpretation...I'm sure given your knowledge/experience that it probably seems obvious to you, but you'll have to help me out here, because i don't see the connection.

Of course the government will do whatever they can to "protect" their interests, including creating vague legislation which they can apply however they would like in any given situation, however I would hate to automatically assume that I have to wait an additional 10 years to declare bankruptcy when in fact i may not have to..

can anyone supply an official clarification of the section? Or can anyone tell me where I might be able to obtain such a clarification?

And/Or, has anyone ACTUALLY gone ahead and declared bankruptcy, thinking that the 10 years was up, and then was SPECIFICALLY told, OFFICIALLY, that their student loans from back before the 10 years were not erased BECAUSE they had gone to school within those 10 years

AND, if that happened, were you given any specific explanations, i.e., is there a difference between going back to school with further student loans, (or interest relief), and going back to schoool with ABSOLUTELY NO student loan activity of ANY KIND....

As much as I love to philosophise about my own interpretation of how things OUGHT to work, I would much rather have solid examples of how things ACTUALLY play out...

thanks again

sunny

 Section 178 of the BIA is described as the following in Layman's terms ...

 Since June 18th, 1998, an absolute discharge order does not release the debtor from amounts due as of the date of the bankruptcy or proposal under the Canada Student Loans Act, the Canada Student Financial Assistance Act, or any provincial act, where a bankruptcy has occurred before the debtor ceased to be a full-time or part-time student, or in the ten (10) years after that date.

 If you decide to attend school again, you will be resetting this 10-year clock.