What to do??

 aries, 

 Wow, they have really confused the heck out of you, haven't they?

 You are all over the map with your concerns, and it is no wonder. I will explain things to you by breaking this down in segments. Some of it may seem repetitious, but it will help you understand more clearly.  

You wrote:

  "sort of on this topic...i have been paying back my canada student loan (in good standing) after being in default for a year b/c of lack of steady work. i make $234/month payments."

 If you have been in default for a year, how has your loan been placed back in good standing? Did you pay the arrears through an outsource program at any of the collection agencies (Early-Out or Cure)? These programs claim to allow you to pay the arrears of a student loan only so that it can be "rehabilitated" back into good standing with the lender. You have to watch these programs.

 You wrote: 

 "today, i got a phone call saying it was "kamilla from nova alliance calling about a returned mail. it is urgent please call me back". it seemed strange, so i called back and left a message....later on...i had a hunch it may be a collector, and after trying really hard, tracked down this site, and the info about allianceone (TCH) and that they collect for student loans. what gives? i made my $234 payment on jan.31st. 2005. i don't have anyone after me for anything...so it seems weird"

 "Alliance One" is the new name for two agencies as of now. The Collection House and Nova Collections have been acquired by Alliance One and carry the same identity. 

 If they are calling you about a student loan, then you were certainly not in good standing. This would be a default - unless Nova Alliance One is running a "Cure or Early-Out" program as I had described above.

 You wrote:

 "what REALLY bothers me is what one person mentioned about allianceone not being easy to track down and the really annoying part is: is she allowed to lie like that to get me to call her back? she didn't say what she was calling about, what the company was, nothing, only that i had returned mail?! i doubt this is legal..."

 Well, she isn't lying if she had mail returned to her that was sent to you. If she is lying, then it is really not an offense in any capacity. Collectors are creative. They will say the darndest things to get a message across - or gain a return call from their debtor.

 When a collector calls, they aren't allowed to give details about the debt when leaving messages either with a person or answering machine. In some cases, they are known to break these rules also.

 You wrote:  

" i await her call and i will tell her i am paying back the csl. i have all my payment proofs from royal bank. this loan went out of collections as of nov. 2004 (was w/ accounts recovery corp.) as i managed to get on my feet and catch up. i get regular statements now from royal bank about the staus and amount owing on my loan. is this allianceone place a scam?"

 What you have described her eis the "early-Out or Cure" Program. Accounts Recovery Corp has one for the CIBC and RBC. They collect only the arrears from you and tell you that you loan will be returned to the bank in good standing. IF Nova is collecting on this same debt, then the account was closed from ARC once they collected the arrears, and the RBC went and sent your entireloan to third-party colelctions. Like I said, you have to watch these programs. When ANY collection agency tells you that IF you pay a the "arrears" on your loan, and then it will be returned to the lender in "good standing", get something in writing that outlines that. I guarantee you when you ask the collection agency to issue that information in writing, you will get the run around - and not receive anything.

You wrote:

 " one big question i have: while i was in default. i sent a money order to ARC (account recovery corp.)for $150 in "good faith" to pay what i could towards the loan. i WANTED to pay it off. i'm honest, and i know i owe the money. i then sent $150 chq.s and they didn't take any of the money. i refused to talk to them via phone, b/c i won't allow myself to be verbally abused (surprise, surprise, they were abusive!) so i sent them a letter every month for 4 months w/$150 chq. saying that this was all i could pay, i wanted to pay off the loan, and i was attempting to do what i could in good faith. they didn't accept it. people here keep saying they have to take your money, even if it is $50/month, so why weren't they cashing my chqs? the lady at ARC said it was b/c it wasn't a money order. well...the money order i sent them never was applied either. i lost it and it went to nothing. can anyone explain this to me? "

Ok. This is starting to make more sense....

 When your account was assigned to ARC, it was in fact the CURE program. All these collectors do is collect the "arrears" only (as mentioned above many times). Then, they tell you once it is paid over the terms that they set, they tell you ythe debt will be returned - as I had outlined above.

 You could not meet their demands, obviously. So, you paid what you could. If you have paid money to them to be applied to the debt - and they refused it, that is an offense.

 Here is the problem... CURE programs and Early-Out's are all about playing catch up over a very short period of time. The bank wants the arrears caught up and that is the colleciton agency's assignment. If a debtor is unable to pay the arrears immediately, or over a few months, then the agencies are required to return the loan back to it's source (the bank). Frowm what you have descirbed here, it appears that the collection agency couldn't apply you money to the debt because you couldn't pay the full amount of the arrears, or that specified amortization period of X AMOUNT OF DOLLARS.  

 The colelction agency simply burried your file because they could not recover the arrears int he alloted time frame. ARC sent the file back to the bank due to the fact.  

You are all over the map here.  I understand this because when you are confused by the system, it leaves you with more questions than answers, and it feels like a wild goose chase. 

 Johnny  

When the loan goes into default, it gets split up and goes in different directions.  This makes things even more confusing. 

About a year ago, I got a letter and a call from CollectCorp about my Ontario Student Loan.  Apparently, instead of going to HRDC collections, it went to them.  I shot a letter back stating they had better prove this by having their client send me a letter on their letterhead saying I owed this money (~$900), as hearing from the collection agency was the first time I had heard about this loan. 

They called again claiming they never recieved the letter (how typical), but I held my ground and told them A) they were instructed to not call me and, B) it was their responsibilty to provide proof I owed this money from the original creditor. 

After much arguing from the guy who said my credit rating would be affected and it is my responsibility to proove I owed the money (??), I stuck to my guns and they promptly hung up. 

For a while I recieved those stupid automated phone calls "This is an important phone call for Reg Kimer.  Please call 800-yada yada." 

Then everything dropped, and haven't heard a peep from them.  All what they were to do was prove the account, and I would have paid it.  Something fishy is going on here.  I would advise you do the same.  Oh, and they didn't touch my credit report.

I get suspicious when collection agencies call about money, claim to have sent a letter, I ask for proof, then they go silent.  Maybe Johnny could provide insight into this.

The collection agency has not touched my credit report.  Period.  My contact with them ended almost a year ago.  Most of the time they know better than to mess with someone who knows the rules and regulations.  This is why those involved in the student loan sham dislike Johnny so much - because he educates us on these things and makes the CAs/government's job much harder. 

Mark,

Don't delete these posts from collectors. There are individuals that are higher up on the food chain with banks and government sectors that see this also. It gives them a bird's eye view of exactly how their customers are being treated by the third-party collectors and agencies that they hire to collect their money.

Johnny

Johnny wrote: Mark, Don't delete these posts from collectors. There are individuals that are higher up on the food chain with banks and government sectors that see this also. It gives them a bird's eye view of exactly how their customers are being treated by the third-party collectors and agencies that they hire to collect their money.

If you don't delete these posts, it works to our benefit as well. We can sit on our perches and look down, laughing and pointing, at the collectors. No matter how bad they make our lives, we could be worse off. We could be one of them.

Allow me to explain, using our friend Crazy as an example.

Crazy is a young man, probably around 22 years of age. He's angry at the world and has a few issues to deal with. Maybe his father beat him. Perhaps his mother abandoned him. Most likely, he's just not getting any.

A few years ago, when Crazy was in high school, he had some trouble with his English classes. Reading was difficult and writing was even harder for him. Unable to perform these simple tasks, things we generally take for granted, Crazy failed his grade 10 literacy test and was not able to graduate.

One can only imagine how miserable and pathetic life would be without at least a high school diploma. Many entry-level jobs require a university degree, so not finishing high school puts a person at an even bigger disadvantage. Crazy found this out the hard way.

Out of school, he needed a job to support himself. Obviously, anything requiring university was not an option, so Crazy set his sights a little lower. He applied to places like Future Shop and Best Buy to work as a salesman, but couldn't get anything there.

Crazy then aimed a bit lower still and headed to his friendly neighborhood McDonalds. He applied for a manager-in-training position and waited eagerly for the phone to ring. It rang all right, bringing more bad news. It was the district manager, calling to tell Crazy that he couldn't read the scribbles on the application form, thereby eliminating him from consideration. Crazy, getting a bit desperate, asked about a job as the fry guy. The district manager shot him down again, saying that McDonalds had certain expectations of its employees, and that Crazy just didn't fit the bill. 

Imagine that, rejected by McDonalds. That's pretty low and it can really damage a person's ego.

After briefly alternating between spells of rage and self-pity, Crazy hit the job trail again.

Ok, he thought, McDonalds is out. What else can I do? Then it hit him. He could work at a collection agency. He'd seen the ads in the papers. They were always hiring and no experience was needed. They promised all kinds of benefits and the opportunity to advance. He'd show those jerks at McDonalds what they were missing out on. Oh yeah, baby, this was it. He was about to hit the big time.

With only a minimum of trouble, he searched the phone book and found a collection agency near his run-down apartment. He strolled in and was hired on the spot. Wow, he thought, I'm in heaven. I've got a job where I can say and do what I want. Best of all, I'm working in a cubicle in a North York high-rise. I've definitely hit the jackpot here.

And the rest, as they say, is history...

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By the way, Crazy, collectors in general don't bother me. It's the semi-coherent collectors such as yourself that drive me nuts. My students are learning English as their second language (their third in some cases), yet they have a much better grasp on the concepts of capitalization, punctuation and sentence structure.

I advise you to seek some help. Don't be ashamed to admit that you've got a problem. You'd be amazed at how much you can learn, and how fast it can happen. If you don't have the money for private lessons, that's not a problem. Visit an adult education center and they'll help you out. Take night classes at your local high school. If there's a YMCA in your area, they most likely offer free courses as well.

If nothing else works for you, try talking to Johnny. He's mentioned several times in previous posts that he does interventions. Perhaps he can pull something off and make your life just a little less miserable and pathetic.

Buff