This website is a testimony to the problems Canadian Student Loan borrowers experienced from approximately 1996 to 2008 and until their loans were paid off.

The privatization of the Student Loans system by the Chretien and Martin Liberal governments broke the system and defaulted thousands of borrowers who were trying to pay their loans. There were even stories of suicide due to the harassment of borrowers.

Read the report that I prepared back in 2007 here. Canada Student Loans-The Need for Change Fortunately the new Conservative government at the time revamped the program and fixed the system for new borrowers, but borrowers under the previous program were left with ruined credit and continued harassment from debt collectors.

I call on the Canadian Government to apologize to the borrowers affected by this fiasco and make amends.

Unfortunately the Liberal government is again clobbering the Education system with their changes to International Student Visas. Yes, there's a problem, but instead of a well thought out plan, they have pulled the emergency brake on the train causing a derailment. This has introduced unprecedented instability for both private and public education institutions who serve both international and local students.

Universities have been forced to cancel programs and layoff hundreds if not thousands of full-time and contract instructors.

Again, the Liberal government has messed up the education environment.


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old hippy View Drop Down
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    Posted: 20/August/2005 at 7:15am

Hello...

The end of my interest relief period of five years is approaching - the debt is around $65K and my income is $10 hr.  Needless to say, I was hoping that the bankruptcy law would be changed by now.  I have never heard of the clock restarting before either.  Does one night class of 3 hrs. a week count?  Oh, no. 

The kicker is that I am 50 yrs. of age...(I don't look it).  So this messing around waiting to put in my 10 yrs. has me getting closer and closer to eating dog food in my retirement years.  I do not have a house, or a car, and no other debts.  I am very anxious about what is going to happen when my interest relief has run out and would appreciate advice from the experienced.  Thank you so much for this website.  I am not alone.

 

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basher13 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote basher13 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20/August/2005 at 7:42am
What's wrong with dog food ? Are you suggesting that I am eating something inedible or unworthy ? The hotplate
heats the can up pretty quickly took, at the motel.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote old hippy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20/August/2005 at 8:59am

Hey Basher13;

Quit being so optimistic. 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 20/August/2005 at 5:37pm
Old Hippy,

Congrats on interest relief ending as you are now likely eligible to apply for Debt Reduction in Repayment.

The good news is that fortunately they have now changed the rules to make sure that more people qualify for this embarrassing government program. You're in a better position to apply for this now than a few years ago!

To answer your question about the three hour course - if it was a credit course, yes it resets the bankruptcy clock. How stupid of the government to put rules in place that deter people from getting further education!

Let us know how the DRR application goes!!

Mark

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote old hippy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 21/August/2005 at 2:53pm

Okay Mark,

I've been digging around and found another Forum - "Interest Relief and Debt Reduction" where someone very kindly posted a few websites.  I'll keep digging because I like to be informed when I go to visit bank people or gov't people.  I will also try to cooperate with them, which will probably mean much paperwork.  I've always detested the "establishment". 

          

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote nago Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 23/August/2005 at 10:01pm
Well,

You have to apply for debt reduction

I applied 13 times but it was worth it

I got 10k of my federal loan and the provincial was totally wiped out 12k

I have 8k in federal loans=55 bucks a month till its paid

But next year i could get 5 more k off

Hope things work out for ya
http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2sn9.jpg
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote old hippy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24/August/2005 at 3:38am

Hi Nago.

I don't see why you would need to apply 13 times, but then I haven't been through the process yet.  From what I understand, there is a chart of earnings and mthly payments (something like the Interest Relief) and you should know whether you qualify or not from the start. 

My concern is that even after a 10K reduction, my loan payments will still be too high for me.  I'm wondering what happens in this case - whether I  see someone at the bank and negotiate something more affordable.  Even interest-only is still too high.  Something like $25 wkly. until the next Debt Reduction?  or a better paying job? Or am I dreaming? 

Another concern is whether the same rule about ceasing to be a full-time or part-time student for the previous 60 mths. applies to debt reduction also.

Because if it does, then I will have to start researching how to deal with the collection agencies.  It's all just a big money game, isn't it.

Old Hippy

 

  

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunter2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24/August/2005 at 5:17am
old hippy. Apply early and stay on top of it.
I was queen of interest relief applications and this DR still managed to trip me up. One set of papers sent in on time was not enough to stop me from hitting 90 days overdue.....due to the fact they Royal says they never "recieved" a dr application from me and their investigations took a month while I waited for the results. When I asked 2 weeks ago if they could just send me out new form I was told to wait for the results of the investigation....which I got today 6 days short of being 90 days overdue.
Yes old hippy you can negotiate payments as low as 25 a month until the next round of DR as long as your income qualifies you. I do not beleive the attendance at school affects DR...only resets the clock for bankruptcy.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote old hippy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 24/August/2005 at 11:49am

Hello,

I found this info on the NSLSC site:

In order to be eligible for DRR, borrowers must:

  • reside in Canada;

  • exhaust the maximum available Interest Relief (a minimum of 30 months);

  • have ceased to be a full-time or part-time student at least 60 months before making the application;

  etc.............

http://www.canlearn.ca/NSLSC/support/new/nlwhanew19.cfm?lang nslsc=en#DRR

I have a problem with this.  It just doesn't make sense.  Lose - Lose.  This stupid rule doesn't benefit anyone...the bank doesn't get the 10K and I'll be dodging collectors.  Why not just give peace a chance? What's the difference if someone takes a little evening course to upgrade computer skills for instance - if they're not borrowing money to do it, and if it isn't effecting full-time employment.  ?????????????????????????????? 

Control freaks.

Old Hippy

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunter2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25/August/2005 at 4:59am
Of course you are right old hippy...sorry my brains not functioning properly right now.
It is sad that they seem to want us to default.I do not think I will ever understand why.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote old hippy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25/August/2005 at 6:52am

I was just ranting Hunter2 .....not directed at you.  Would it be possible to just fail to mention taking courses?  Has anyone actually been rejected because they were a part time student?  For the DRR or bankruptcy.  There are a number of definitions of part-time student as well......where is it written? Maybe it's a typo...

old hippy

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hunter2 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 25/August/2005 at 7:43am
I should know better..dumb advice!
For bankruptcy I would imagine they would look at it very closely and its written in the laws governing the bankruptcy act.
As for DR...not sure how closely they look at it but do know they are sticklers for having things done "right"(at least in their minds). You could always wing it and see what happens.
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Hey Old Hippy,

Welcome to the pile of sh*t we call Student Loans. It's more like screw as many people as possible loans. Just look into how the banks got involved and all the sh*t regarding that. In addition, judge Sedgwick who is nothing more than a preverse scum bag acting like a judge rules against us but he lets a preverse sicko, sexual molester go into our community. I guess when you have high walls and alarm systems you don't worry so much about those kinds of people! Same with the politicians. Must be nice to make 100k+ a year. No wonder none, and I mean none, of them can relate to us and don't care about us either! This is a class war and unfortunately the scum hold all the cards and continue to screw us. No doubt it makes room for their little boys and girls coming out into the world.

Upper class richey says, "No low life is going to take my daughter's job!"

Anyway welcome to the club dude. Sorry you have joined. I am sure everyone here would not have joined if they had realised BEFORE JOINING that we were going to get screwed as bad as we are getting. I tried to point this out to Mr. Cogliati. But alas he only sees his ass so no one, no matter what the argument is going to get any help from him or the Feds. They are as cold as corpses and have the same amount of compassion as well. I am afraid my maple leaf crest is falling from my chest for this "Canadian society". Or as I call it "Canadian discrimination"!

Anyway sorry to rant but I have had it and I hope our government goes to hell! Sorry you are finding out the crap this system has in store for you.

Hope all goes well for you and you avoid the pitfalls or don't have one thrown on top of you without realising it!

Good Luck!

Debtsucks
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I view student loans from a strictly business
perspective.

Anybody taking out $40,000 in student loans
must have previous decided and analyzed the loan
in the following manner:

- is the program of study, and its graduates,
in demand now, or are expected to be, in the future
in terms of jobs ?

- what salary from such a program of study is
to be expected? What's the range? The worst case
scenario?

- how long would it take to pay back, if a low
paying $10/job is taken after graduation? Could
rent, food, a car, and expenses be payable after
such as program and loan were taken?

- if the program studied is not in demand, in
terms of jobs, do I really want to go ahead with it
take the loan, study and graduate, and hit a brick
wall in terms of jobs?

- do I have the mental, physical, emotional,
and living conditions sufficient to pass the program
and graduate?

- if jobs are uncertain, are there other cities
where the market demand for candidates is higher
than others?

- are other programs of study, which I can pass,
more in demand than the original one thought?

Only after the above have been analyzed, should
the loan be taken out.

This is like opening a business...you don't open
a shop, or a store, without creasting a business
plan, getting comments from lawyers, accountants,
experienced people in the industry, and measuring
the demand for the given product or service.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote polyhymnia61 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 30/August/2005 at 4:22am

...and an 18 year old with no credit history knows this? Does this also mean that all of us who don't used this "system" deserve what they get?

And I would like to know what mathematical equation you use to determine whether the program you started will still be in demand four years later at graduation. The unemployed IT grads would like to know too...I was told when I began my studies in the late 80s that any liberal arts degree would be valuable. Silly me...should have known "they" were wrong, right?

And if your dream career isn't "in demand", should one give it up if they aren't rich enough to pursue it? Why should only the rich be able to do what they want? Oh yeah, life isn't fair, that's why...funny how only rich people or only those lucky enough to have a dream job that's "in demand" say that...

Oh, and while you're at it, I would also like the system you use to ensure that no unexpected health problems, family crises or other emergencies, financial or otherwise will occur during these four years. And then after, that banks won't repeatedly lose your forms and throw you into collection even though it's the same bank you worked for for 11 years.

And finally, what option does a economically disadvantaged young person have today: poverty because they didn't go to uni and had to take a crap job...or poverty because they went to uni and their job doesn't cover loan payments, and a wrecked credit rating because the bank screwed up their repayments?

This is why I quit business studies after one term. No matter how much the profs and the texts attempted to convince me that it was a science, I knew from experience that life is unpredictable and chaotic. Sh*t happens. You can't predict human behaviour -- yours or society's -- through some formula.

I did what I thought was "right" (because I was a lot older and had the life experiences behind me, as well as the family responsibilities that compelled me to think through the same stuff you recommend)... still ended up broke, underemployed, in debt and chased by three collection agencies.

There may be odds, but no guarantees.

Poly

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31/August/2005 at 7:57am
Basher13,
As described in the Straight article, unfortunately you are applying rules and ideas that no longer are applicable to the situation we live in today.

You're assuming that the answers you come up with when you start your program will be the same when you come out two or four years later. NOT A CHANCE NOW!

I did a masters degree in counselling - but when I graduated three years later the govt changed and jobs are gone.

http://www.straight.com/content.cfm?id=12187

Also, some of the students I teach are pulling their hair out cause the provincial govt cancelled the grants. As a result of no provincial grants, they lose their federal matching grant. So half way through their program their debt shoots from $12,000 to $36000! They couldnt have planned for that nor the handing over of the program to private interests for profit.

Also, I dont see an evaluation statement of the probability of Edulinx losing your forms and defaulting you half way school, or after you graduate, destroying your credit rating and making you ineligible for funding for your final year of school. - or for PH.d students, the change restricting the number of weeks, resulting in no funding and having to pay back your loans while in school, and being ineligible for interest relief because your research grant is counted as income in one month, or med students being ineligible for interest relief while doing their residency due - again, a rule change.

How would you plan and logically deal with these situations?

Your list of questions falls apart under these very common and typical scenarios. Yes, planning is very important but the education and job market is far more unstable now than it was even 6 months ago.

Gas 1.15 in vancouver today. New Orleans destroyed. USA loses 20 percent of oil production....   figure these into the economic situation in 6 months....

Mark
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote debtsucks Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31/August/2005 at 11:09am
Basher13,

Your statement is one that has no credibility or basis in truth. You sound just like a politician. What world are you living in?

Debtsucks
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote old hippy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31/August/2005 at 12:21pm
Hi all,

Haven’t checked my e-mail in a few days.  Whew!  Getting closer every day to living in a sci-fi novel.  None of us are as pissed off as Mother Nature has been lately.  Should have listened to those old hippy environmentalists.   ….then came the yuppies, and the two-income families, and the coloured TV’s, and  the cars, cars, cars and more cars for the most pampered generation that has ever been.  Some more pampered than others of course.

I know you were only joking Basher13.  Just trying to get a rise out of us.  What’s your story then?

To those working for the System – we are just numbers.  Numbers in their computers……  Anyone know a good hacker?  Just kidding.  I have another 6 months interest relief so I can relax for the time being.  I am recovering from other battles though and am familiar with the absurdity, and the injustice of it all.  It hurts, it shocks, and it angers.  Eventually, you have to throw up your hands in surrender and enjoy your life anyways.  The hell with them.  Enjoy being educated, even though you’re poverty-stricken. 

The bank’s are winning.  For instance, the government has been paying the bank nearly $400 a month interest on my loan for the past 4 ½ years.   That’s a lot of money.  I am certainly not proud of it.  I apologize to the taxpayers.  But every time I tried to leave school, I ended up on Welfare and when Mike Harris came along with his welfare reforms,  I signed another loan application because I chose to live.  It really had nothing to do with whether my program of study was financially feasible. 

I know what it is to go hungry in the midst of a prosperous community. Not because I didn’t want to work.  Not because I was handicapped or illiterate. There’s something wrong ...and it's not me. 

Hippy 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote old hippy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 31/August/2005 at 12:35pm

Hey DebtSucks,

I almost forgot.  You're right about the class war but that's always been going on.  I've worked with mother-daughter teams in my last three positions.  Most recently, an 18-year-old high school graduate who earns more than I do because her mother pulled strings (doesn't pay rent, or pay bills) ...NepotismSucks too.  Don't get bitter....although it's hard not to.  Rage against the machine is perfectly acceptable though.  I'll keep you from getting depressed.....yeah I studied Psych.

 

 

 

 

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote polyhymnia61 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 01/September/2005 at 8:33am

Hippy!

Should have welcomed you a while back...so...WELCOME!

Love your attitude and humour in spite of the joys of living in Mike Harris' Ontario. Been there, did the protest at Queen's Park in 1996...

Hope you can hang with us awhile; I think you can bring a bit of calming perspective to a lot of us who are totally freeeeked...

And Mark and debtsucks...thanks for the backup...I wondered whether I was getting a bit overly biatchy again...Or whether I was wasting my time arguing with "Mr. Alias" again...

Regardless of whether I was, however, I think the issues needed to be brought out into the open. They are almost NEVER addressed in the mainstream media...

Poly

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