Charter Challenge Anniversary

Has it really been a year now? 

Yes, we should and I do salute her for her courage and perserverance.

Johnny,

you wrote:

"if the government were to loosen up the chains on the rules regarding student debt, then it will open the door to the system's abuse once again"

Could you please substantiate (i.e. quote and reference PUBLISHED research from a reputable source) your comments regarding students' propensity to abuse the bankrupty system. Do you know the stats on "abuse of the system" regarding bankruptcy and student loans?  i.e. at the time when the 10 year rule was implemented, was the rate of bankruptcy on student loans significantly higher than the rate of bankruptcy on consumer debt in general?  as well, were those students who did file bankruptcy actually experiencing financial hardship i.e. what did the average total debt portfolio  look like for those who filed? Statistically speaking, these are 2 key questions that must be answered in order to single out students as the consistent abusers of the system. Unfortunately for you, there is no possible way that you can answer these questions and i'll tell you why.  There was no proper study done on this issue to obtain this information.  Thus, there is NO evidence that students were abusing the system any more (or less) than consumers in general.  (FYI:  opinions and hearsay don't count as evidence)

the 10 year rule came about in 1998 because at the time, the government was doing what they could to keep the banks in the student loan business.  This was the incentive that they offered.

i'm not saying that there is no abuse.  however, to single out students as the group that were consistent abusers is wrong especially when the fact of the matter is that you just don't know.  Your previous post implies that we as student loan holders are just waiting anxiously for the rules to change so we can start "abusing the system" once again.  Why?  I know that you don't like bankruptcy because it doesn't suit YOUR needs, but honestly, sometimes your comments are downright insulting.

karen

man i hate computers.  i spent like over two hours on a reply to this one and it got zapped in internet hell. here goes the short version...

between 70 and 80 thousand people in canada file for bankruptcy each year on average, and around 15 000 file a consumer proposal.  fine ya the stats are up - whatever,  numbers can be manipulated to suit anyones purpose.  but of that only about 10% claim student loans in their bankruptcy.  and the bankruptcy trustees make what, 20 % plus a chunk of that 1500 it costs you to file ??  healthy business to prey on those who are fighting to stay afloat.

25% of student loans will default each year - and about 320 000 people get a student loan every year.  so thats about 80 000 people who default every year.  this is consistent from about 1990 ( between 20 and 25 %).  so each year revenue canada siezes an additional 80 000 income tax and gst refunds due to right of off set.  and these 80 000 households still are bombarded with incessant calls from CA's and the like.  this does not count the 140 000 grads on interest relief who cant get jobs either, competing with the other 7 million people who are unable to find work.

the problem is there arent enough jobs.  fix that and loan defaults will go away.  bankruptcy wont change being unemployed, and the unemployed cannot afford to file for bankruptcy.  next.

Yep.

Tried door #1 and door #3...found the goat chomping grass in each one. Only door #4 had the jackpot.

Your best bet if you wanna make a deal, is to contact Monty -- ehrm -- JOHNNY!!

Sorry about the Let's Make a Deal analogy!! I forgot that probably most people here are too young to remember that game show...

But you can look at it this way...If I hadn't contacted Johnny, I wouldn't be making stoopid jokes, would I? I'd be too freaked out...

(I'm fine Johnny! I pick up my work permit Monday...wish me luck on the job search!)

Poly...

It's now official .... Justice Gordon Sedgwick made his ruling and it was in favor of the government.

It comes as no surprise that the Honourable Judge Gordon Sedgwick ruled against the Canadian Federation of Students' Charter Challenge that the 10 year law on Student Loans is unconstitutional.

It comes as no surprise because for starters, it is highly unlikely that Gordon Sedgwick had to ever endure what many of us, especially in Generation X, had to go through to try to get his law degree at the time he was pursuing his education.

I would not be surprised if he came from a wealthy background that funded his education and thus perhaps he never had to borrow to get an education.

The point being here is that someone of his capacity has not experienced what we are experiencing as student loan debtors and thus has no understanding at all about it.

Also, if this was a Charter Challenge against a private entity rather than against a Federal Government law or statute, the chances are better that a ruling in favor of us debtors would have occurred. The reason being that the Federal Government's Department of Justice are the employers (or should I say appointers) of these Supreme Court Justices. So there is no way it seems that a Supreme Court Justice will rule against his or her own government that appointed him or her to the Bench. Right there and then lies the very problem with our judicial system.

There is too much corruption in the system and the only people who seem to win in many civil, and even criminal, cases are the ones with the big bucks and the big clout such as this country's greatest moron - Paul Martin.

I know how the world works, and not to sound judgmental (no pun intended there) or anything, but no one can tell me that in this case that the Department of Justice and the Department responsible for HRSDC and perhaps other private interests may have bribed Gordon Sedgwick to make this ruling.

All I have to say to Honourable Justice Gordon Sedgwick is this - "THANKS A LOT!"

O well. Better finish off the last two years of my debt sentence

Though thanks again to the Canadian Federation of Students as a whole for at least trying .  It was a long struggle, but the glacier is finally off the Quaaludes!

Is there a way of getting the text of the ruling itself?

Which is more productive? Bankruptcy? Or - finding a more productive way to take control,manage, and potentially solve the debt problem without causing more problems along the way?

Looking for a way is more productive than looking for a way out. Bankruptcy does not solve the problem because the shadows of your problem(s) are still lingering around you wherever you go after the fact. Unfortunately, most people do not know or realize this.

 Johnny