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Financial Questionaire Violates Privacy Laws

Printed From: CanadaStudentDebt.ca
Category: Immediate Attention and Info!
Forum Name: Privacy Issues, Violatons and Complaints
Forum Description: Discuss and expose privacy issues
URL: https://www.canadastudentdebt.ca/forum_posts.asp?TID=4744
Printed Date: 19/March/2024 at 2:15am
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Topic: Financial Questionaire Violates Privacy Laws
Posted By: administrator
Subject: Financial Questionaire Violates Privacy Laws
Date Posted: 20/February/2008 at 11:13am
Looks like a no brainer to me ...

The financial questionaire is likely illegal!!!!

We need someone who has been asked to file a financial questionaire to file a complaint with the privacy Commissioner of Canada.

112 Kent Street
Place de Ville
Tower B, 3rd Floor
Ottawa, Ontario
K1A 1H3

Please include your full contact details in your letter, including your name, address and the telephone number where you can be reached, and provide as much detail as possible about your complaint.

From http://www.privcom.gc.ca/information/02_05_d_08_e.asp

Your ability to control your personal information is key to your right to privacy.
The Act gives you control over your personal information by requiring organizations to obtain your consent to collect, use or disclose information about you. The Act confers certain rights on individuals, and imposes specific obligations on organizations.


The law requires organizations to:
     obtain your consent when they collect, use or disclose your personal information;

     supply you with a product or a service even if you refuse consent for the collection, use or disclosure of your personal information unless that information is essential to the transaction;}
     collect information by fair and lawful means; and
     have personal information policies that are clear, understandable and readily available.




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Administrator
Mark OMeara
Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain
https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024



Replies:
Posted By: Madmorrigan
Date Posted: 21/February/2008 at 4:20am

Does that also apply to info accessed through the Credit Bureaus?



Posted By: Madmorrigan
Date Posted: 21/February/2008 at 4:24am
As well, does it apply to account numbers?? All my loans use some form of my FULL SIN# (usually with letters tagged onto the end) and anyone with half a brain could figure it out.
 
I may write the privacy commissioner anyway...


Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 21/February/2008 at 4:27am
You'd have to check with the privacy oommissioner on that..

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Administrator
Mark OMeara
Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain
https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024


Posted By: Buff
Date Posted: 21/February/2008 at 2:27pm
But don't expect a reply anytime soon.
 
I filed a complaint in September 2006. I got a generic acknowledgement in January 2007. They sent a letter asking me to call them and discuss it in May 2007. I called them to change my address and ask for an update (they had none) in June 2007. I've received no mail or phone calls from them since then.
 
Buff


Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 21/February/2008 at 3:47pm
Wow... so I guess we have to work that much harder on it.



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Administrator
Mark OMeara
Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain
https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024


Posted By: paulaffleck
Date Posted: 21/February/2008 at 4:44pm

Has the Canadian Federation of Students ever retained a lawyer to write a legal memo to address the legal question of whether these "questionnaires" in some way violate federal privacy laws?  What's needed is a lawyer's opinion, I think.

The federal government would likely argue that these forms are questionnaires, and that people can choose whether to complete them.  I forget what was the questionnaire that ARO sent to me, because I refused to complete it.  I would imagine that it contains some kind of "consent" portion. 
 
 
And of course, no matter whether the forms comply with privacy legislation or not, because the debt is due and payable in full, the government is well within its rights to simply say, ok, we're going to sue you.   Let's say we win the argument over violation of privacy laws.  Couldn't the government simply say: "Ok, no more questionnaires - we'll just start suing more people"? 
 
I think that some official body representing students needs to retain a lawyer and pay for a legal opinion on the issue, then that body needs to make its case to the government.  Whether it will actually make student debtors' plights any different is an open question. 
 
I think the real answer is to raise public awareness of the plight of student debtors, with the ultimate goal of a general amnesty for student loan, or at least a partial amnesty. 
 
I don't see how winning piecemeal legal battles like the privacy issue will tackle the essential issue:  People are going not just broke but bankrupt on account of student debts, and that should be unacceptable to all who believe in access to higher education for the public at large.
 
My 2 cents.
 
-Paul


Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 21/February/2008 at 4:55pm
Hi Paul,
The CFS is an organization that represents 'students' so they are generally involved in issues that affect borrowers after they leave school. It is basically beyond their mandate = and if you google CFS and lawsuit, they've had their own issues to deal with regarding their Travel Cuts division and the attempts of some schools to break away from the organization.

As for school organizations, their representatives change every years so the continuity isnt often there to get these matters going.

Unfortunately the people who need the help dont seem to have the funds to retain a lawyer to do the work...

As for an organization that represents borrowers.... well, we're it! and as well the Coalition for Student Loan Fairness... at http://www.studentloanfairness.ca which I co-founded with Julian who has been working really hard on getting the message out to media.

For this issue, I could really use some help on this. If you know of a lawyer who could investigate and advise what to do, that would be a huge help!

Basically, some collections agents are bullies- with a financial questionaire as their weapon. The bullies wont go away, but at least I can try to take away their weapon and disarm them for now. And you are right, they may just go for more drastic actions, and then we'll have to deal with that.


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Administrator
Mark OMeara
Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain
https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024


Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 23/February/2008 at 7:31am
I've checked my consolidation agreement and there is a clause giving my bank the permission to collect personal info about me, but I doubt that this can be argued to go as far to collect the info in the questionaire, so it needs to be challenged in light of the wording of the consolidation agreement.

Also requiring a spouses info is not right in my idea.

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Administrator
Mark OMeara
Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain
https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024


Posted By: paulaffleck
Date Posted: 24/February/2008 at 5:13am
I just a financial questionnaire from ARO.  Because of this discussion, I looked for, and found, some reference to the use that would be made of the information provided, specifically that it would only be used in accordance with existing privacy legislation.  I'm paraphrasing here, obviously.
 
But it seems to me that these are "questionnaires", that the debtor can choose to either complete or not complete.  It also seems that the use of this information is restricted by existing privacy legislation.  I don't see this argument going very far, you know...
 
The other unfortunate aspect to this issue is that the questionnaire is being used to assess the financial status of debtors who have already defaulted on student loans - the government may take the position that they are extending a courtesy, and that they could simply sue all student debtors, rather than inquire into their financial status in the hopes of coming to a repayment agreement.  To the extent that the questionnaires are being used to establish repayment terms, and in effect to stave off litigation, I don't see the equities as being favourable, either.
 
Of course, the larger question is that of the entirely questionable and sometimes downright nasty tactics that the collectors use in dealing with debtors.  Also, I don't see why these questionnaires are required to come to adequate repayment arrangements.  But I just don't see how they somehow violate privacy laws.
 
Sorry -- hope I'm wrong!
 
I think we are stuck with the questionnaires. 


Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 24/February/2008 at 12:41pm
Appreciate your comments on this...

Heres some additional info. If you dont fill out the questionaire, your file is marked as "client being unco-operative"

The questionaire info is compared with the statistics canada tables and then the borrower is asked to justify all the expenses.

The questionaire is used to try to squeeze out additional payment from the borrower so that the agency makes a higher commission.

The questionaire also requires info about ones spouse.

What I'm arguing here is that the Collection agency and perhaps the government does not believe you have the right to refuse to fill out these questionairs. Refusing to fill the questionaire often leads to being screamed at by the collection agents and further harassment.

The the grounds for a complaint is that apparently the CA's dont think that we have the right to refuse filling out the questionaire, and that the purpose of the information is not clearly stated.

Any thoughts on this issue?

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Administrator
Mark OMeara
Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain
https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024


Posted By: paulaffleck
Date Posted: 24/February/2008 at 12:55pm

My knowledge of privacy laws is pretty sketchy at best, but it's interesting to consider the issue of the spouse's income being included.  I don't have my questionnaire in front of me, but might there be an issue of whether the spouse needs to consent to the giving of information to the CA?

 
Of course, there might be some really simple answer to this question - I just have no idea what it might be!
 
-Paul


Posted By: frustrated-guy
Date Posted: 24/February/2008 at 3:42pm
Above it was suggested by http://www.canadastudentdebt.ca/member_profile.asp?PF=4339&FID=64 - paulaffleck   that "it seems to me that these are 'questionnaires', that the debtor can choose to either complete or not complete."
 
Unfortunately it is my view that is not true that it is optional.  I wish it was.   The collectors and the government do not view these questionaires as optional and yes they say that you are being uncooperative and threaten to sue and yell and scream if you do not fill one of these forms out.
 
It is my view that if one fills out the form you are giving the collectors ammunition to take any measley resources that you may have and they will try to take those resources even if you have none.    The evil collectors will take every last dime.  They do not care if you are unemployed or have kids etc.   All they want is their commission on the money.   They do not care if they take your last dime.
 
Furthermore, filling out one of these forms could be considered essentially Self-incrimination.   I thought we had legal rights in this regard.   Do we not?
 
The forms are not used to determine payment arrangements, they are used to pump you for information to locate any meager financial resources that the collector can take.    In this regard they are being used in a way other than disclosed (determine a payment arrangement) and are a violation of privacy.
 


Posted By: vanja1085
Date Posted: 25/February/2008 at 4:47am
I get one of those questionairres once every year or maybe 6 months...  I fill them out but I never include my banking information or work information.. I'll put my income and my expenses, but in those other fields I always put n/a.. my fed student loan used to be in a collection agency but now it's at service canada...   as for my spouse's information I do the same... last time i put that he doesn't wish for me to disclose information and I haven't gotten anything back from them... 
 
before you kill me, I used to work for a collection agency before (for about a year) and I hated it, but I was able to learn a lot of useful information that I apply and/or tell people...  I had so many problems with one when my royal bank student loan went to collections by my mistake.. I was young and naive and didn't realize that prior to 2000 there were bank loans and then the national student loan...  so the royal bank went to collections.. the private collection agency was so stupid that I ended up getting the royal bank to settle on less than half of what was originally owed. I could've sued them and now i wish I had... just by talking to me they broke about 5 bc collection laws and i ended up talking to the president/owner of the pca and they agreed to settle at 40% (even tho I called them the day the loan went to pca..)  they sent me a letter signed by a lawyer telling me that they are going to sue me, but when i called the lawyer they didn't even have a license to practice law in bc.. *lol*  on top of that , on the letter it told me to contact this person at the pca, only for me to find out she doesn't even have a licence either to look at my information.. it was a joke..   bcuz of my knowledge, i had so much fun settling my loan, but i had every intention of paying it back..  I just worked at 8 bucks an hour and that wasn't possible.  now if i can just win a lottery and pay off my 20k fed loan.. Wink


Posted By: cadillacjerk
Date Posted: 26/February/2008 at 8:02am


Its always made me wonder how these clowns get phone numbers,cell and home,  ( that are in my name  not my wifes ) new job info etc easily without talking to any one in our family or any friends .....or why these debts sit for 2 -5 years or more and then the hardcore threats and harassment start from the get go....These guys make me laff in the sense every time they have called they are the ones that wind up screaming by the end of the call.

As far as the questionnaire forms go I believe it is a catch 22 scenario....they are in violation of the privacy act yet if you don't fill them out  you're hiding something (cut and paste this link in the address bar if it won't take you there)

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/P-21/bo-ga:s_7//en#anchorbo-ga:s_7

This reads in part: section 8 (1) Personal information under the control of a government institution shall not, without the consent of the individual to whom it relates, be disclosed by the institution except in accordance with this section.

Of course there is more bafflegarb on this site, that may contradict this...but it seems to me that this should include any agency acting on a company's (bank) or the Gov's behalf...




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Some days it's just not worth chewing through the leather restraints.


Posted By: Ottawa Gal
Date Posted: 26/February/2008 at 11:24pm
I just saw this thread today.  I can tell you from work experience in federal privacy  that when it comes to a person owing money - its pretty much a free for all.  There is a section in the legislation that authorizes organizations collecting a debt to do a lot of things without the individual's consent - including calling "anyone" to get information to track the person down - however they cannot reveal the amount (s) owed.  Forget the Privacy Act  for collection agencies- it is not the applicable legislation - what you want to look at is the Personal Information Protection of Information Documents Act (PIPEDA).  Further, some provinces (Québec, BC, Alberta) have enacted "substantially similar" legislation and so PIPEDA and the Privacy Commissioner will not apply - you need to refer to that province's legislation and contact the Privacy Commissioner there. 

Banks fall under the Privacy Act - I am not sure how the Privacy Commissioner fits in with the NSLC since the NSLC manages both federal and provincial loans.  It would be good to call and ask the question - it never came up for me, when I worked there.

The federal Privacy Commissioner only manages privacy issues that the feds collect/use/disclose, as well as FUWB'S (federal works undertakings and banks).  A form is not a problem unless you are denied a benefit for not providing the personal information demanded.  You could send it to the privacy commissioner (whoever the right one might be, given the information I provided above) and have someone look at it - however, the fed priv commissioner does not provide that service - they get involved AFTER a formal complaint has been made and under PIPEDA, they will normally advise you to first complain to the privacy officer, give the privacy officer a reasonable amount of time to respond and if you get nowhere, then make a formal complaint to the priv commissioner and include all correspondence between you and the privacy officer of the organization involved - then you can wait about a year for a response, give or take - depending on urgency.

As a final note, you can ask any organization's privacy officer under what legislative authority the information is being collected, what will be done with it, how long and how it will be stored (i.e. if stored in databases in the USA it becomes subject to the Patriot Act, so you don't wanna consent to THAT), used, disclosed, etc. 




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Ottawa Gal!


Posted By: Ottawa Gal
Date Posted: 26/February/2008 at 11:33pm

Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act

2000, c. 5

P-8.6

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/fr/ShowDoc/cs/P-8.6/bo-ga:s_1::bo-ga:l_1//fr?page=1&isPrinting=false#codese:7-ss:_3_ -

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/showdoc/cs/P-8.6/bo-ga:l_1//en#anchorbo-ga:l_1

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/fr/ShowDoc/cs/P-8.6/bo-ga:s_1::bo-ga:l_1//fr?page=1&isPrinting=false#codese:7-ss:_3_ -

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/fr/ShowDoc/cs/P-8.6/bo-ga:s_1::bo-ga:l_1//fr?page=1&isPrinting=false#codese:7-ss:_3_ -

http://laws.justice.gc.ca/fr/ShowDoc/cs/P-8.6/bo-ga:s_1::bo-ga:l_1//fr?page=1&isPrinting=false#codese:7-ss:_3_ - Disclosure without knowledge or consent

(3) For the purpose of clause 4.3 of Schedule 1, and despite the note that accompanies that clause, an organization may disclose personal information without the knowledge or consent of the individual only if the disclosure is


(b) for the purpose of collecting a debt owed by the individual to the organization;



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Ottawa Gal!


Posted By: Ottawa Gal
Date Posted: 26/February/2008 at 11:36pm

from the Privacy Commissioner's website


http://www.privcom.gc.ca/fs-fi/02_05_d_02_e.asp


Social Insurance Numbers (SIN)

What is the Social Insurance Number (SIN)?

The Social Insurance Number (SIN) was created in 1964 to serve as a client account number in the administration of the Canada Pension Plan and Canada's varied employment insurance programs. In 1967, what is now Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) started using the SIN for tax reporting purposes.

Why do organizations ask for it?

Organizations in and outside government ask for the SIN because it is a simple method of identification. Many use it as a client account number to save them from setting up their own numbering systems.

Although only certain government departments and programs are authorized to collect and use the SIN, there is no legislation that prohibits organizations asking for it.

Why is my SIN so important to personal information and privacy?

  • The SIN may be a key piece of information to open the door to your personal information.
  • Computer technology makes it possible to use the SIN to find and match your information from one database to another; without your knowledge, a detailed profile could be drawn about you. This amounts to "data surveillance" or monitoring of your daily life, which can pose a serious threat to our privacy and autonomy.
  • Your SIN can be used to steal your identity. Along with other personal information, someone may be able to use your SIN to apply for a credit card or open a bank account, rent vehicles, equipment, or accommodation in your name, leaving you responsible for the bills, charges, bad checks, and taxes.

Who can ask for my SIN?

Your SIN is a confidential number that is restricted to income reporting purposes. There are a select and limited number of federal government departments and programs specifically authorized to collect the SIN. See list below.

The authority to collect and use the SIN is tied to a specific legislated purpose, not necessarily to a particular body. For example, an employer can collect an employee's SIN to provide them with Records of Employment and T-4 slips for income tax purposes, as can provincial or municipal agencies to report financial assistance payments for income tax purposes.

Institutions from which you earn interest or income, such as banks, credit unions and trust companies, must also ask for your SIN.

So, what can I do when asked for my SIN?

  • Ask if you are required by law to provide it (see list below);
  • Ask why the person needs it, how it will be used and to whom it will be given;
  • Your SIN is not a piece of identification. If it is not required by law (and you are not satisfied with the explanation), tell the person you prefer not to use the SIN and offer other identification;
  • If the organization refuses to give you the product or service unless you give your SIN, complain to the Privacy Commissioner of Canada;
  • If you would like better legal protection for your SIN, call or write your federal Member of Parliament.

Do any provincial and municipal safeguards exist?

While most provincial and municipal governments may not be prohibited from collecting and using the SIN, many are reviewing their use of it and considering alternatives. All provinces and territories have privacy laws to protect personal information in government files.

If you are concerned about how your provincial government is using the SIN, contact your http://www.privcom.gc.ca/prov/index_e.asp - provincial information and privacy commissioner and find out more.

How am I protected in the private sector?

The Personal Information Protection and Electronic Documents Act (PIPEDA) sets out ground rules for how private sector organizations may collect, use or disclose personal information in the course of commercial activities.

Since January 1, 2001, the Act applied to personal information about customers or employees that is collected, used or disclosed by the federally-regulated sector in the course of commercial activities. It also applies to information that is sold across provincial and territorial boundaries. As of January 1, 2004, the Act covers the collection, use and disclosure of personal information in the course of any commercial activity within a province, including provincially-regulated organizations, except in provinces that have enacted legislation that is deemed to be substantially similar to the federal law.

Under the new law, organizations like banks, telecommunications companies and airlines cannot require you to consent to the collection, use or disclosure of your personal information unless it is required for a specific and legitimate purpose.

This means that unless an organization can demonstrate that your SIN is required by law, or that no alternative identifier would suffice to complete the transaction, you cannot be denied a product or service on the grounds of your refusal to provide your SIN.

If you disagree with a request for your SIN made by an organization that is subject to the PIPEDA, you can complain to the Privacy Commissioner of Canada, who will investigate the complaint.

Legislated uses of the SIN (or legislation that regulates its use) include:

  • Canada Pension Plan, Old Age Security and Employment Insurance contributions or claims (the original purposes for the SIN);
  • Income Tax identification;
  • banks, trust companies, caisse populaires and stock brokers when they sell you financial products (GICs or Canada Savings Bonds) or services (bank accounts) that generate interest. They declare your interest to Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) for income tax purposes;
  • various Veterans Affairs benefit programs;
  • Canada Student Loans or Canada Student Financial Assistance;
  • Canada Education Savings Grants;
  • Gasoline and Aviation Gasoline Excise Tax Applications;
  • Canadian Wheat Board Act;
  • Labour Adjustment Benefits Act;
  • Tax Rebate Discounting Regulations;
  • Race Track Supervision Regulations;
  • Garnishment Regulations (Family Orders and Agreements Enforcement Assistance Act);
  • Canada Elections Act;
  • Canadian Labour Standards Regulations (Canada Labour Code);
  • Farm Income Protection.

Programs Authorized to use the SIN:

  • Immigration Adjustment Assistance Program;
  • Income and Health Care Programs;
  • Income Tax Appeals and Adverse Decisions;
  • Labour Adjustment Review Board;
  • National Dose Registry for Occupational Exposures to Radiation;
  • Rural and Native Housing Program;
  • Social Assistance and Economic Development Program

For more information about privacy and your SIN, call toll free 1-800-282-1376, or write:

The Office of the Privacy Commissioner of Canada
112 Kent Street
Ottawa, ON
K1A 1H3

Visit the http://www.hrdc-drhc.gc.ca/sin-nas/010_e.shtml - Human Resources and Development Web site to find answers to general questions about the SIN - such as how to apply for a SIN, or replace a lost or stolen card.

 


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Ottawa Gal!


Posted By: cadillacjerk
Date Posted: 27/February/2008 at 4:03pm
wow! great response! So please let me ask this: did you fill out your questionaire and if so and without going into great detail, what did you divulge in regards to spousal income etc?
 
Being new this site I havent had a chance to read all your posts but if they are as good as the last few then I'm looking forward to them.


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Some days it's just not worth chewing through the leather restraints.


Posted By: Ottawa Gal
Date Posted: 27/February/2008 at 11:27pm
cadillac

first, thanks :)

second - i am not in collection with my loans (yet) and have never been asked to fill out a form - however, since i know privacy laws fairly well (and all the players), i wish any organization lots of luck getting my personal information out of me - if i had a spouse i would direct them to collect his personal information directly from him, after counselling him, of course, to not disclose it - i'd have to see their legislative authority to collect 'anything' they are demanding, then i'd want to talk to their privacy officer, legal department, etc......i have two law degrees, (thanks to my student loans!) so good luck to them

:)


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Ottawa Gal!


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 28/February/2008 at 9:56am
The government of Canada can take quite a few approaches to making like rather challenging for people who do not want to provide information on a FIF (financial information form). There is a lot of proof that substantiates this. Law firms who sue for the government can demand that a borrower supply them with their spouse's information so they can determine if the loan can be repaid based on spousal income. If the borrower and spouse refuse to give that information, then the legal agent can proceed to execution of whichever enforcement method is most suitable. So, when the government requests financial information from borrowers, and the borrowers do not comply, they escalate the matter.
 
Question for Ottawa Girl - Could this be interpreted as any form of coercion?


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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: Ottawa Gal
Date Posted: 28/February/2008 at 11:01am
johnny

i'd like to see that proof that you refer to - and what enforcement method options you are referring to...........you have identified nothing in particular and well i am not intimidated easily by legal language and by lawyers even less given my legal background....i am not a lawyer, but i can talk circles around most and beat them at their own stupid silly little games - so i would challenge them to escalate away so long as i was paying what i can and not running away from my responsibility, they have to play fair.....now if i was being a jerk and simply being irresponsible, then i deserve whatever is coming to me

a spouse is not responsible for the debts of anyone unless they co-signed - you might have meant that the government will consider the income of those in the household, as well as number of dependents and the household expenses, to make a determination surrounding the ability to pay ...lawyers can ask for the moon and make it sound legal......there are bullies everywhere, but i'd be asking for which piece of legislation (and then i'd be looking at caselaw, et al) which they think allows them the right to demand from another, the personal information of any individual - a marriage is not a licence to invade the other's privacy - the lawyers are counting on the ignorance in law of the  people they bully - and i guess its working

part of law's design is its mysterious legal language and instruments - it forces non-legal actors to frely on one of their own in order to sort things out......(everyone hates a lawyer - until they need one) - our politicians are almost all exclusively lawyers and guess who crafts law???

all licenced lawyers who have been called to the bar must obey a code of ethics in the provinces in which they are licenced to practice - any lawyer doing illegal things should immediately be reported to the governing body (law society) - i would suggest having a paper trail of conversations, complete with full names, positions, dates, times..........and let the person know you are keeping full notes........maybe they will call less?  we can hope






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Ottawa Gal!


Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 28/February/2008 at 2:48pm
So I'm confused Ottawa Gal

You wrote "I can tell you from work experience in federal privacy that when it comes to a person owing money - its pretty much a free for all. There is a section in the legislation that authorizes organizations collecting a debt to do a lot of things without the individual's consent - including calling "anyone" to get information to track the person down - however they cannot reveal the amount (s) owed. "

Now you say that "but i'd be asking for which piece of legislation (and then i'd be looking at caselaw, et al) which they think allows them the right to demand from another, the personal information of any individual - a marriage is not a licence to invade the other's privacy - the lawyers are counting on the ignorance in law of the people they bully - and i guess its working"

So which is it?

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Administrator
Mark OMeara
Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain
https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024


Posted By: Ottawa Gal
Date Posted: 29/February/2008 at 12:03am
Sorry about your confusion there Mark..........both statements you quoted are true

i have already posted the following to support either/or/both (but you will need to go back and read that post and the one preceding it)

"(b) for the purpose of collecting a debt owed by the individual to the organization;"


keywords:  owed by the individual

since the spouse is not the individual who owes money to the organization demanding personal and financial information, so the law I quoted (PIPEDA) prohibits its collection ..........so.............that being the case.........

I was saying that I would demand to know what statutory instrument  allows them to demand my spouse's personal/financial information and if they actually came up with one, (it was really more of a rhetorical statement on my part),  I would then do my research on what they say informs their work, to find out how the courts have interpreted it and whether the privacy law is paramount to it, etc - privacy laws are especially sensitive to inappropriate collections and disclosures of personal financial information - so I would really have fun torturing the organization demanding I provide it :)



while organizations can call anyone to get information on the whereabouts of someone that actually owes money, those organizations cannot legally ask for information regarding the debtor's wife/husband/partner, kids, mother, uncle/aunt, friend, dog (see where I am going with this?), as far as I know, there are NO laws in Canada that would allow for it.......but hey, on the off chance they say there is, I would want them to tell me what it is and would launch into my privacy legal mumbo spiel which should have them crying at their end, in no time......its the only fun  we have left, right?

So you see Mark, both my statements were true.........you just thought the first was about anyone at all, whereas if you read it again you will see that it was about an organization tracking down a person who owes a debt









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Ottawa Gal!


Posted By: Ottawa Gal
Date Posted: 29/February/2008 at 12:12am
Johnny

Coersion is a legal concept usually used ias part of a legal defence, usually against cops who got confessions out of people illegally.........(beat the crap out of them), so I would say no - I would say if you owe money and are trying to avoid paying, you can't very well cry coercision if you willingly and without question just hand over all your personal information because you haven't even checked out if you have to hand it over...

ignorance of the law is no excuse to be stupid - of course they will threaten to escalate it.......I had a lawyer try to make me pay for my daughter's shoplifting once, an entire firm in Toronto dedicated to bullying parents into thinking bad legal things would happen if they don't pay.........my daughter was not living with me and had stolen a disposable camera.....the law firm wanted over $300.00 in "damages" and were collecting on behalf of the grocery store..........i did my research and believe me that law firm was sorry to have wasted a single stamp on writing to me.........needless to say, i never heard from them again.......once i threatened to sue THEM

knowledge of law is liberating...........before i knew law i was afraid of the legal machine...............now i laugh at the ridiculous ways it is used to intimidate.........and it works - most people are really afraid of being incarcerated.....and truth be told, there are more criminals on the street then "inside" as we do not have enough prisons so the government will do just about anything to NOT prosecute




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Ottawa Gal!


Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 29/February/2008 at 4:02am
A borrower is being phoned every day by a collection agency. The debtor knows they owe the money and want to pay it, but they dont have the money because of a poor paying job. The collection agency threatens to note on their file that they are being unco-operative if they dont fill out the form.

The legislation uses family income, so technically the family income is used to determine the payment amount regardless of which spouse earns it.

And the collection agency is constantly going over the expenses listed telling the borrower that they have to cut back on food or transportation expenses and give more money to the Collection agency.

So my question is this: How does the above information help borrowers on this site?

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Administrator
Mark OMeara
Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain
https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 29/February/2008 at 6:58am
Coercion takes place at all sorts of collection levels, and it is not a physical beating, rather a manipulative psychological approach to get someone to talk. The cops smacking around a suspect in the hopes of getting a confession, well ... a third-party collector or government collection rep abusing power, office, and student loan borrowers, what's the difference?  
 
If a third-party hired by the government uses coercion tactics against a client of the govenrment, it is written as prohibited, but does not say it is illegal or criminal. The directives state that (which is interpreted as policy and not not law). So, the directives are issued but are not adhered to. If the government actually followed their own collection and recovery directives, the private collection agencies would be removed from collecting crown assets. The question is is it illegal for a government representative, or a hired third-party agent to use coercion tactics to gain payment of money? Physical punishment and psychological warfare have a similar impact on a person and his/her life. Emotional damage, panic attacks, severe depression and chronic anxiety - these are the the effects that debt crisis have on people, and are longer-term problems. Does the system actually recognize this? The system refusing to believe that this methodology is harming Canadian citizens, and the Canadian economy is nothing more than a product of denial.
 
As for the collection sector at the govenrment level, they require transparency in respect to borrowers and their partners/spouse's incomes. They want borrowers to pay based on the total income. However, if a partner or spouse refuses to allow the release of their income information, the government can take that as a refusal by the borrower to cooperate and then escalate. The borrower is being punished because of their partner's right to privacy. The government can simply make the condition that the inrormation be provided or no assistance will be given. Power is power, and these representatives have it.  I call it a status imbalance or inconsistency. A spouse is not responsible unless endorsed on the loan, absolutely. The collection sector is under trememdous pressure by their government heirarchy, and their heirarchy is under tremebdous pressure by the Treasury Board to recover money. If people refuse to cooperater in the manner that the government recivery sector requires, then the government can say either ok, we bow down to your refusal and resistance, or; ok, we are going to make an example out of you because you clearly choose to defy us. Sound familiar?
 
You have to remember Ottawa Girl, many people do not know the context of law. You do, that is fine.
 
 You wrote:
 
"I was saying that I would demand to know what statutory instrument  allows them to demand my spouse's personal/financial information and if they actually came up with one, (it was really more of a rhetorical statement on my part),  I would then do my research on what they say informs their work, to find out how the courts have interpreted it and whether the privacy law is paramount to it, etc - privacy laws are especially sensitive to inappropriate collections and disclosures of personal financial information - so I would really have fun torturing the organization demanding I provide it :)"
 
Ok. You go arm wrestle with Canada Revenue over this and see where it leaves you.
 


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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: Ottawa Gal
Date Posted: 29/February/2008 at 10:31am
Mark

I am unsure, but I think you are asking me this question:  "So my question is this: How does the above information help borrowers on this site?"

they now have some resources and some knowledge on privacy issues, which they can choose to deepen or access for themselves


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Ottawa Gal!


Posted By: paulaffleck
Date Posted: 29/February/2008 at 10:37am
I concur.  If OG wants to "fight the good fight", good for her.  But I doubt it will be as much fun as she predicts.
 
With all due respect.


Posted By: Ottawa Gal
Date Posted: 29/February/2008 at 10:59am
in your first paragraph, Johnny, to answer your question (assuming it was directed at me):  one situation is legal while the other one is not - there is no crime done in psychological, emotional or mental abuse - its not in the criminal code, period

as far as the manipulation of collection agencies and their abuses go, the bottom line is that anyone has to do is hang up  - nobody is forcing anyone to listen to their rants, threats and abuses - anyone can make a threat to sue - its not illegal to threaten to sue someone or for them to write notes in their own files about whatever they want - tell them to knock themselves out

we probably all know the collection agencies can write you are wholly uncooperative no matter how nice you are to them - so i would suggest keeping your own notes of the call (which I think I suggested elsewhere) - personally, i screen my calls - always and return the calls I feel like returning - i wouldn't return collection agency calls except to ask to speak to their lawyers and know their address (which I would then use to research them and tell them my phone is broken, gee, shucks, can they write??)

all policies have a basis in law - if the policies go against the law, bingo, you file a complaint with the government department administering that law, and go straight to the minister - copy the media and see what happens

i'd love to see proof (caselaw) about what you mention in the third paragraph of your post - you wrote:  "However, if a partner or spouse refuses to allow the release of their income information, the government can take that as a refusal by the borrower to cooperate and then escalate. The borrower is being punished because of their partner's right to privacy. The government can simply make the condition that the inrormation be provided or no assistance will be given." -

do you know if anyone has actually been prosecuted for the above?   if so, who won and can you give me the details, i.e., names of parties, jurisdiction, estimated dates?  if so, i can go look them up and be in a better position to comment - personally, i don't think this has ever happened, but what do i know.....






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Ottawa Gal!


Posted By: Ottawa Gal
Date Posted: 29/February/2008 at 11:02am
paula..........i am not having trouble with revenu canada, it was a rhetorical statement

i have tango'd with them before, (in 1992) and won though

yippee!




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Ottawa Gal!


Posted By: administrator
Date Posted: 29/February/2008 at 12:04pm
So you hang up, and they call back, and you hang up and they call back, and then you dont answer the phone ...thats the exact story thats been posted here so many times.

I wish it were different. I had my own case with HRDC. They were obviously not following the law. In one case they were quoting a regulation that didnt exist. So after 6 months a reporter took up the story and they admitted there was no such regulation.... but it took reading 35 pages of legislation, getting a second opinion, trying to find a reporter....and after I won that point they countered with another point that didnt follow the regulations... In the end I would have had to sue them in the supreme court of canada to get them to follow their own regulations. I didnt have the time or the money to do so.

So particularly with student loans, just because there is a regulation, it does not mean that its followed. I mean, HRSDC's directives say that CA's are supposed to treat borrowers with respect and not be abusive. Is that being followed? Nope! I wish it were, and thats what this site is about.

I hope, Ottawa Gal, that you can take up the cause and fight for some of the members here on these issues! We need more people raising the issue in media and in legal circles.

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Administrator
Mark OMeara
Author of Let Go and Heal: Recovery from Emotional Pain
https://LaughSingWrite.com - http://bit.ly/heal2024


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 29/February/2008 at 12:15pm
You work for the government, OT? You are aware of the privacy laws. as far as the govenrment carrying out action against borrowers who refuse to provide full disclosure of total household finances, you can contact any number of the legal agents that represent the AG in this matter and ask them if such a thing occurs. If you are challenging that, go do your research. You have the facility. Go get er done.
 
The problem is that the government wants to collect money, and the more people become aware of their rights and certain freedoms that surface as a result of awareness, the more difficult it is for the collection groups to collect using the archaic methodology of their paradigm. I read you - and understand you. However, you cannot beat the system. Being able to live and be productive while the system is doing its deeds is what is important.
 
Do you want to see people go to court and fight for themselves? This is not a landlord/tenenacy issue. This is a government in the form of a 400 lb gorilla. Like I said - you go arm wrestle with one of those and see for yourself. If you beat Revenue Canada in a suit, demonstrate the case. Surely it is in public record.
 
 


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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: cadillacjerk
Date Posted: 03/March/2008 at 5:40pm

Ok here goes, my wife is working for my little computer company, as explained before, in a previous post (somewhere on this site). She keeps getting ugly phone calls on our company cell phone from the warm hearted souls at CBV. They kind of gave up phoning her work (as often) once it was explained that she didn't work for them. However, they have now sent her this financial info form which asks her, among other things, what she spends on toiletries. (I guess they will want her to cut back on the jumbo pack of TP that we spoil ourselves with.) At any rate she filled it out honestly using her wages alone and with no extras she is already 150 amonth in the hole. This form makes no provisions for a spouse’s income (not that she would divulge that) and oddly enough does not ask for her SIN or any employment info.  So against our better judgement and against the esteemed Ottawa Girl’s advice, we are going to send it off. I will keep you posted. I fully expect them, in due course to figure who she does work for, and start turning the heat up on me.

 

A few years ago when a buddy of mine was being harrassed at his place of work  by a well known CA; soon after these collection clowns went ahead, got a court order to garnishee his wages. The company refused to act on it for the longest time until they too were sent a notice that they(the CA) would inturn sue the company for twice what he owed. Needless to say they folded and took the money off each pay cheque. I have often wondered the legalities of that.

 



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Some days it's just not worth chewing through the leather restraints.


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 04/March/2008 at 1:31am

Is it a Crown debt or an Ontario loan? Bank risk?



-------------
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: cadillacjerk
Date Posted: 04/March/2008 at 6:58am
if you are referring to my situation Johnny, her student loan was with CIBC. My friends problem was from a divorce scenario, his ex had run up a stack of bills.

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Some days it's just not worth chewing through the leather restraints.


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 04/March/2008 at 7:30am
The best thing to do inthis case would be to copy CIBC National student Center on the financial information. Collectors try to manipulate borrowers based on the information they provided. For example, if you claim to pay 100 per month for emtertainment, and 100 for clothing, they will argue with you about that. People do have the right to live and enjoy some entertainment, such as a movie and a dinner out with a loved one. Or, take their child or children out to a movie, and a meal at Pizza Hut. The costs for entertainment are balanced, but collectors and governments try muscle people about these expenses.
 
If you need help, let me eknow.
 


-------------
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: cadillacjerk
Date Posted: 06/March/2008 at 5:53pm
you wrote>The best thing to do inthis case would be to copy CIBC National student Center on the financial information.
 
Johnny: Forgive my ignorance we are not sure what this means. Please clarify..
 
To reiterate; my wife's loans are 10 years old. For various reasons we declared bankruptcy in 2003 and in 2004 we were discharged. Her student loan was listed in the bankruptcy along with the rest of debts at that time. We never heard anything about this loan until Feb of this year when CBV came along starting with the threats and harassing phone calls. She has never said she will not pay, as a matter of fact she has offered to make payments but this idiot has not told her who to make payments to or interest rate or any other pertinent info, other than her to wire a 1000 dollars  immediately to some address that she can't verify and then go get a loan for $25000 and send that too. (which is impossible to do with a bankruptcy and this student loan blotch on her credit report)
 
So it has gone like this... he phones the house at 7:45 in the morning or at 8 30 at night demanding she call him, he calls her work demanding the fax number or to be put through to the payroll dept. or speak to her manager (thankfully she is the office manager and does payroll) or his favourite thing is to call our (company) cell phone 3 or 4 times a day and berate her or leave cryptic messages. To be honest; its getting to the point where I want to get physical with this moron, but that creates a whole new set of issues. For now we can just let him rant, although we are screening all calls its hard to do with a business. She did send off the form (unsigned and no payroll stub) and we are waiting to see his heartfelt reaction to this. It seems to me these types of clowns never seem to drop dead from stress yet they are carriers....


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Some days it's just not worth chewing through the leather restraints.


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 07/March/2008 at 4:39am
It means anything you send to the collection agency, send also to CIBC showing that the agency has received it.

-------------
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: beerstud
Date Posted: 19/June/2009 at 9:15am

I used to get statements all the time from CBV that showed how much I had paid and the amount outstanding. I pay using online banking, so I can use my statements to prove I am paying. I asked CBV about the lack of receipts sent out since January this year, they 'swithched to a new system and are having problems printing', was the response. Hmmm in this day and age that would be unacceptable for any piece of software in a business or home setting, to be on the market for 6 months and not be able to print. So the "real" reason is likely they do not have to provide receipts and thus are not bothering to. Maybe it is because of the new collector 'Abdul' who looks after my account, maybe he does not know how to get the computer to print.......... :lol:

Since my loan is with CIBC, but handled by those wonderful professionals at CBV Calgary,  do I have to fill out the financial questionarre? They send out this document, at least twice a year, very unprofessional looking, crooked on the sheet, not much space to enter information or to add any information. Also, the form is so poorly designed it looked like it was made on a typewriter and then scanned 15 years ago. Some places the information is for yearly amounts, other spots it is for monthly amounts. Hmm I just add it all together but do not hand in any paystubs. But I am wondering if this is an invasion of privacy under FOIP?

I do not enter any information in regards to my spouse, as this is FOIP. Is the entire form FOIP? I wonder is it actually being sent back to CIBC or does it just have their logo on it for CBV to collect more monies out of me.
The bank or national student center cannot help as the loan is in collections with CBV.
But if this was really for CIBC, would the form not look professional? Instead of this garbage form :?:
What happens if I do not submit the form, can they do anything to me?

Also, I looked at my credit bureau, they CBV are hitting my bureau twice a month some months????
Not sure of why, but it this counts as a hit on my credit bureau, no wonder my score does not really improve and getting credit is next to impossible.
The other thing, my student loan shows up twice on credit bureau, once for around 21000 which is the amount owing, and a second time for over 26000 which is the original amount.
Since that acccounts for almost 50000 of debt, imagine trying to obtain any credit, especially with both having R9 rating.
How can I get one of these off my credit bureau? Beg and plead with the bureaus?  Should they be listed twice? The lady at the loans at the bank says no, but.....



Posted By: janna
Date Posted: 08/January/2010 at 4:15am
I'm sitting here with one right now, and I'm wondering about how to fill it out. I have no problem filling it out, but figuring out how much I spend and how much I make is difficult. I'm self-employed and make anywhere from $400 to $1400 per invoice, depending on how much work is completed prior to my sending an invoice. I don't send the invoices regularly (though I do usually send them once a month), and I only have one client at the moment.

I live with my fiance, who works full-time. His income pays most of our living expenses. Mine pays my specific expenses (e.g., loan payments, car insurance). I have no personal savings and I refuse to divulge any information about my fiance's finances due to privacy concerns.

I tried filling it out once already, and thought I would put the average for my invoices down as my income. If I take my total income so far and divide that by the number of months I've been doing this contract work, I only make $1000/month. Then when I split out our shared expenses (e.g., rent, groceries, cable) and put in my personal expenses (as above), I end up in the hole by more than $300. That's when I include the $400 a month I am paying the collections agency (ARC). This is the only thing I owe now, and I would love to get rid of it, but my credit rating still isn't good enough to get me a loan to be able to just pay it out (I think I still owe over $10,000 total).

I don't particularly want to send this form in with that huge a discrepancy on it. I can just imagine the response: "How are you surviving if you're that much in the hole each month?" Um, well, I don't actually have to worry about paying rent or buying groceries, because my fiance's income pays for that. "Then why can't you pay us that $1000 per month that you make?" Because I have to pay for other expenses, too, and the $400 is all I can really afford!

Help?


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 09/January/2010 at 4:53pm

The student loan system cannot penalize you because your spouse or partner does not want to divulge financial information. However, the system seems to take the position that unless you provide it they won't assist you. You are correct though. The system behaves as though no laws bind them in any way. Interesting topic. Let's see where this goes.

 


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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: paulaffleck
Date Posted: 09/January/2010 at 5:41pm
Refuse to complete the form, and pay 3% of the original loan amount, which I understand to be compliant with HRSDC guidelines for third-party collectors.  It's what I did, and until I completed repaying the loan I rarely heard from the collection agency.  When I did, I reiterated to them, my position.  Hope this helps.


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 10/January/2010 at 2:11pm

Actually the 3% of principle requirement is no longer how they work it. THier internal policy now is setting the required payment to a "term" now, which is either amortized over 5 or 7 years, depending on the size of the total loan. So, for example, if you owe $10,000, trhey will want it repaid over a five-year period. Larger balances they set at 7 years.

Twisted.


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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: paulaffleck
Date Posted: 10/January/2010 at 3:09pm
It's amazing, the dearth of information about student loans.

When I was in massive default, and in a state of utter panic, it was the information on this website that gave me information sufficient to feel empowered enough to deal with collection agents.  I had HRSDC's third-party collection agency, ARO, hounding me, and I stuck to my guns about paying only 3% per month only because of information about my obligations, posted by Johnny, on this website.

I note that nowhere could I find this information in any readily accessible fashion, on any governmental website.  And here we see how quickly policies such as this change.

I'm not in student debt any longer, but the problem is only going to get worse for a lot of students, and for this reason I hope that this website continues to assist many students, because the information is just not out there, or it's out there but so disorganized that interpreting it is impossible.

-P




Posted By: janna
Date Posted: 10/January/2010 at 4:51pm
So should I just ask the agent how much they would normally be asking in terms of a monthly payment, since I am not in a position to pay off the full amount at this time, or should I just say (again) that regardless of what their form were to come up with regarding how much I can afford, the fact is that I can ACTUALLY only afford $400 a month, which is what I've been paying for the past year. I am trying not to be argumentative with them. We communicate via e-mail and letter mail. Every time they ask me to phone, I state that I am only willing to communicate in writing. (This is both because I want written evidence and because I have a ADHD, which makes it really difficult to follow spoken conversations on the phone or in person. Not that I've told them that.) I'm willing to cooperate, and I want to pay what I owe, but I can't afford to pay more than I am, and I don't see why I should fill out a form that's going to either show that I shouldn't be paying them anything or make them think I should be paying them twice what I'm paying right now.

FRUSTRATING!


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 11/January/2010 at 2:25am
How much do you owe? How much do you earn? I will tell you what they will be looking for.
 
The internal policies that the Non-Tax directate (CRA) sets out are not readily available to the public. That is a major disadvantage to the population of student loan borrowers in trouble. This  policy has been designed so that the level of repayment increases and loans arer paid back ina  shorter amount of time. This new position (policy) further illustrates the influence the financial industry has within the government of Canada. Basically, CRA  thinks it is bank and a collection agency. It sees the world through that same lens.   


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Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: janna
Date Posted: 11/January/2010 at 4:57am
I think I currently owe about $12000 but originally it was $14000. (Well, when it went into collections that's how much it was. The original loan itself was something like $25000 - we're talking CSL through RBC in the late 1990's - I graduated in 1998 - and it was the largest loan.) I bring in about $13000 per year through a contract I acquired last April. So I only make about $1083 per month, on average.

I have two loans through the NSLC, from 2001, that are in good standing and are being paid off no problem. This one that's in collections is the only one that went to collections and the only one I'm still paying in any way aside from the two with the NSLC. If I could just get rid of it, I would. But that's really not an option right now. It took me until 2008 to become financially stable, not that the loan people care about that or the fact that their crap policies have decimated my credit rating.


Posted By: SolveStudentDebt
Date Posted: 12/January/2010 at 6:40am

They may try to corner you into committing to pay the loan over a 5-year term. However, your income clearly does not support that sort of payment. You do blend into a financial hardship that they consider. Of course, it also depends on the rest of your financials though.

If you want some help getting this on a track that you can monitor and manage, let me know!
 
Johnny


-------------
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

http://www.solvestudentdebt.com" rel="nofollow - solvestudentdebt.com


Posted By: river
Date Posted: 12/July/2010 at 11:53am
I have had a loan in collections for a few years now.  In this past year the CRA has taken over the collection efforts.  Since the loan has been in collections I have made regular, consistent payments.  I have not missed a month payment since it going to collections.   CRA has never contacted me to discuss anything and I assumed the amount I was paying was sufficient.

Today I received a financial questionnaire.  There is absolutely no way I will be filling this out.  Should I be contacting the officer and make him aware how ignore the letter and keep making my regular payments.
 
paulaffleck, How long did you avoid filling out the questionnaire before you had the loan paid off? 

Funny thing is, wouldn't the CRA have all the info they are asking for anyway?  I file a tax return every year. 


Posted By: grasshopper
Date Posted: 03/September/2010 at 3:57pm
"Funny thing is, wouldn't the CRA have all the info they are asking for anyway?  I file a tax return every year. "

You know, river, that was the exact thing that I was thinking and I even asked the agent the very same question.  Her response was that their department didn't have access to that information.  I thought this was very unusual.  Then they asked me to send them a photocopy of my stub from the province.  (I am on provincial assistance - disability and have filed my tax return.) 

On a related theme, I was also sent an "Authorization to release medical information".  I am very hesitant about releasing any medical information to the government.  The form authorizes "officials of CRA with the medical and employability infomation requested in Part 2 (financial info form)....  This information will help the CRA officials in the administration of my file." 

Now, if the province has the medical information it needs to find me disabled, then why would the CRA need another medical form?

Another question is who are these "officials" and how will it help with the "administration" of my file?  Administer it how?  Also, the address is in Quebec - the Outaouais office - ARGP.  That in itself raises all sorts flags for me.  Would the different legal system in Quebec have an impact on my privacy and how my information is handled? 

Perhaps I am being overly paranoid?  It has been almost seven years since my diagnosis and over ten since defaulting on my student loan.   While there has been some improvement in my functionality, it is not enough to sustain me and certainly not enough to begin payments to the CRA.  I do not want to have the wrath of the government upon me because as Johnny stated in a previous forum, I can't afford it! 

Is there any clear, coherent guidelines regarding these darn forms?

Kind regards,

Alex



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