This website is a testimony to the problems Canadian Student Loan borrowers experienced from approximately 1996 to 2008 and until their loans were paid off.

The privatization of the Student Loans system by the Chretien and Martin Liberal governments broke the system and defaulted thousands of borrowers who were trying to pay their loans. There were even stories of suicide due to the harassment of borrowers.

Read the report that I prepared back in 2007 here. Canada Student Loans-The Need for Change Fortunately the new Conservative government at the time revamped the program and fixed the system for new borrowers, but borrowers under the previous program were left with ruined credit and continued harassment from debt collectors.

I call on the Canadian Government to apologize to the borrowers affected by this fiasco and make amends.

Unfortunately the Liberal government is again clobbering the Education system with their upcoming changes to International Student Visas. Yes, there's a problem, but instead of a well thought out plan, they have pulled the emergency brake on the train causing a derailment. This has introduced unprecedented instability for both private and public education institutions who serve both international and local students.

Universities can't plan. I've heard of courses being cut because the government has no process in place for universities to send the newly required acceptance letters to the government.

This means that students who have been accepted can not attend courses that start in the summer 2024 semester. With cut sections, current Canadian students will have trouble getting courses, and may have to switch to part-time which changes their enrollment status and might trigger repayment of their loans or ineligibility for funding. I've seen this before. It wreaks havoc on the student loan borrowers.

Again, the Liberal government has messed up the education environment. Will the new system needed in a rush for the acceptance letters be the new Arrivecan scandal?

I call on the government to implement a slower phased in approach and delay the requirement of the acceptance letters until a process is in place to submit these letters.


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    Posted: 10/June/2016 at 6:09am
Hi, thank you for the people here and a dear thank you to Mark OMeara for providing this.  Here is my question.  I have been on the RAP for 8 years, and this is the first year that I have a spouse.  Now I have to provide his income amount plus a letter saying that he is not contributing to my loan.  I fear this.  I have no income of my own, been poor and impoverished since the day of graduation, jobs were hard and contracted, and I couldn't manage, and actually would have been a lot better off by not going to college.
 
But anyway, would this be a bad thing to do, for me saying that he won't contribute seems weird, and having to show his income, I mean nothing is adding up, I don't get it.  Btw, he is not signed onto my loan.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote administrator Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 10/June/2016 at 9:05am
RAP has been using family income to determine eligibility.  Did they suggest this letter that he does not contribute? If so this is a major breakthrough.  It would not be weird... what they used to do was expect the other spouse to pay the loan.... hopefully that has changed...

Let us know how it goes...

And thank you for the thank you... those kind of comments are rare even though I run this site as a volunteer.  Much appreciated!

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Yes, they told me to write that in the letter.  That he does not contribute to my loan.  They still want his income though.  I was prepared when I called them to tell them that, and how was I supposed to get the money from him.  And I was prepared to ask them if they could ask him to pay it.  But when I told them on the phone that he won't pay it, they told me to write the letter. 
 
Maybe it has been this way all along?  You have to tell them he won't pay first?  I'm hoping this will work out.  I'll let you know how it goes.  Oh, and your welcome.  This is an awesome site, I've read it so much, no where else are things spelled out, things people have experienced, I'm grateful. 
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The law says in it that payment calculation is based on total household income.  The NSLSC is bound by the same law.  Writing a letter with his refusal to divulge his personal information is his legal right. After all, he does not owe the debt. The Canadian government's bankruptcy and insolvency act bases everything on total income. So does the CSLP. 

The danger here is that people may feel forced to withhold information. If caught the government is pretty nasty about it.  So, borrowers are damned if they do - damned if they don't.   
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

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Now they are asking for his actual income statements, and he is refusing to give it.  But, I was also on the phone with NSLSC and told me that I would be denied RAP anyway because he makes too much.  They said that he makes enough for 9 people, that he can pay it.  They even made me feel bad, for they even said that he does have this responsibility towards me.  That he pays all the bills, he should be paying this too. That we are a family now, like he is ignoring his obligations.  I know he is successful, he can pay it, I feel badly now.  But I know he is not the one who signed on the loan, and they said that shouldn't matter to him.  They played on my emotions.  

So I don't know what to do.  But I think maybe the letter might work if your family doesn't make too much, and you have dependents.  It could be worth a try for others.  

So you are saying that if he withholds the information the government will be nasty about it?  I don't know what that means, if he doesn't owe it.  I was reading elsewhere on the forum where others are not divulging the spouses information, and that is ok.  They don't have to give it. 
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Originally posted by Jane50 Jane50 wrote:

Hi, thank you for the people here and a dear thank you to Mark OMeara for providing this.  Here is my question.  I have been on the RAP for 8 years, and this is the first year that I have a spouse.  Now I have to provide his income amount plus a letter saying that he is not contributing to my loan.  I fear this.  I have no income of my own, been poor and impoverished since the day of graduation, jobs were hard and contracted, and I couldn't manage, and actually would have been a lot better off by not going to college.
 
But anyway, would this be a bad thing to do, for me saying that he won't contribute seems weird, and having to show his income, I mean nothing is adding up, I don't get it.  Btw, he is not signed onto my loan.

Unless your debt is huge, I am a little bit surprised that you can't come up with enough to make normal payment.  Why aren't you working even in a limited capacity?  Even a minimum wage job working 20 hours a week would make a normal payment ( unless your debt is huge).  Presumably he is covering your living expenses.  Why can't you work enough to pay off your debt?

Get a part time job.  Borrow enough from your spouse to rehabilitate your loan.  Send everything from your part-time job towards debt payment.

I think I ( as your spouse) would be a little upset with the idea of paying off your debt if you aren't making an effort to work even 10 or 20 hours a week in a minimum wage job.  You might find he's more willing to help you if you make this effort.

If you're disabled or at home with kids, I withdraw my comments and understand completely.
 


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No kids at home, not disabled.  I've been two years unemployed.  My last position was for 7 months.  I used to be able to get summer work at least, but not been happening for me lately.  I've been using my contacts. But I'm told that I have to apply directly online to the companies, which I do.  Got a few interviews, but nothing.  Been like this for awhile now.  

Every time I think a position is going to be permanent, I get let go.  I get told, "You're a bad fit," or whatever.  My self-esteem has plummeted.  

I moved from the city to a very rural area.  There might be a job at a store in town here.  They just put up a help wanted sign.  Won't be a lot of money, but it might be a better working environment.  I used to work in retail before getting an education, and it was fine, and no debt.  And better morale.

Payments would be 450$ a month.  Or I can go on interest only, which would be $130 a month, but would not accomplish paying down the debt.  So there are a few options.  I just wonder if I can switch from actual payments to interest only when necessary.  Or if they require a regular payment schedule.  

Working and not contributing to the household in the way of money and asking him for more.  And he will wonder what happened to the steady stream of clean laundry, and meals (as much), and I guess we'll have to talk about it.  Working part time won't be as bad though.  Maybe I can pull that off, and be like I'm still doing what I need to do at home, I'm thinking.  I used to work 60 hours a week, and he used to help out around the house, but I had money to contribute.  I got RAP until we did our taxes as a couple.  I didn't do our taxes as a couple before, as I was unsure of our relationship.  If we would stay together.  Besides, I didn't live here when I had to work in town.  I stayed with him part time, and contributed, but now I'm worried about asking him for more help in the way of finances and household needs while not contributing.  That's why I wanted a good paying job.  

This is a relatively new relationship, we are older, and just kinda found our way together.  I was educated, and had money for a little while, now all has changed, and I don't know why.    



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I didn't ask for his help to pay it.  He assumes its just going to go away.  He has no idea of what real poverty is, he has never seen it or experienced it.  To him, not being able to buy that tractor or truck is extreme poverty.  We are both in our fifties.  I went to school in my mid thirties, never thinking this would ever happen, that I would make lots of money.  RAP was great, it helped me as a single mom, even when I made good money, payments were very low, and no interest.  No more dependents, and now a spouse, and I haven't been able to secure a regular position ever, I get the whole thing thrown into my lap, I'm just scared.  I've never stopped looking for work, not having mani's and pedi's here, do my own hair, not desperate housewife here.  I'm trying to secure that elusive secure position, make my own money.  I know poverty, hubby doesn't, and now I have to ask him to let me make money just to pay down my loan.  
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Two options - pay it or do not pay it. If you can pay it on your own without any hardship or crisis then you should do so. If you can't, and default is imminent, I will help you get a good benefit out it IF you have a case.   

No one deserves to be bullied or beaten up by a government system that is broken to begin with. You are not responsible for someone else's debt unless you are legally responsible for it. The system does not have to work with you if your spouse refuses to pay the debt for you. This is the message that the CSLP is sending out. Why should anyone seek assistance from them then? It is not opportunistic. It is indenture ship in form of enslavement to a despotic and barbaric government financial system.  

Royal NCO makes good points to the effect that IF a person can get by - then do so. I really don't know your case other than what you describe here. I am an advocate for the people - not the system, and one of my business works with people to cope with and solve problems cause by this insanely broken student loan system, and it's contracted  inadequate and dysfunctional privately-owned service center NSLSC. 
Solve Student Debt specializes in solutions for students and graduates in student loan default, and those at risk of defaulting.

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Thanks Johnny, that's something for me to consider.  I have 11 days to figure this out.  Maybe a little more.  Legally we have to say when we are common law, for tax purposes, and I know I cheated on that one a little bit, but it was a lot for me to process.  I wasn't sure.

Another thing is that, we are never secure in a common-law relationship.  It can be over really quickly, with no payouts at all.  And, if I am already defaulted, I will have screwed myself out of RAP forever.  But they consider this as a marriage, but its not.  

And I would like to ask the NSLSC how do they expect me to get the income statement, and/or the money out of him?  Should I be stealing his info?  And digging into his bank accounts without telling him?  Maybe they have secured a way for their clients to do this?  After all he is a private citizen who never even took out a student loan.  

The message that the CSLP is sending out is that sugar daddies are the way to go.  Even if you are a proud woman, capable of earning your own money, not just for student loans, but for food and utilities, other bills, but the system is too broken.  The job system is broken too for that matter.  As far as I'm concerned, the government has a lot to do that would be ethical, not corrupt things further.

And hubby is a great guy.  I have my own moral issues in asking for his further support.  Especially, when I am capable, and strong, and able, and EDUCATED. Lots and lots of good people caught up in a corrupt system.  I felt everyone of the posts I read.  Who does this?  Why doesn't the government know about it?  No need to answer, these are rhetorical questions.
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Jane, 

I see your point, but I also see their perspective.  In fact, it mildly irritate me too.   I totally understand that when you were poor, paying this debt would have been hard, and you should definitely have availed yourself of what you could to ease payment stress.  So many of us find ourself in a position where we worked minimum wage jobs and by the time we paid for our living expenses, there was nothing left.  Add to that their administrative errors, and suddenly we discovered we no longer qualified for any kind of payment relief.

In your case, you're trying to tell me that your hubby might be concerned that he no longer has a clean house and meals prepared if you work out of the home.  Well, yes, in this case, he very definately should pay your debt.  He's taking your unpaid service to better his own life and in exchange is putting a roof over your head and food in your belly.  You could be out there working a part-time job and earning the income you need to pay your debt.  Instead, you're at home servicing your spouse and not getting paid for it.  Sorry, but that's not fair to the rest of borrowers who are struggling to pay their bills and lack a spouse who can pay "for 9 people".

I see your spouse's perspective too.  You're both in your 50s.  He doesn't need your income and good credit to live comfortably.  Why should he care about your debt?  This is a bit controlling of him actually, because by not paying you're debt and keeping you as a house wife, he has effectively trapped you.
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Oh boy. 

The issue here is what is right and what is wrong. Should the system hold the spouse of a borrower responsible to pay for a student loan that is not owed by him or her.  The answer is no. It shouldn't.  RoyalNCO, it is comparable to you taking out a loan at the bank and the bank deciding to approach someone else to pay it instead of you.  It is wrong, and why no one has legally challenged the government in it's legislative nonsense surrounding the BIA and CSLP is surprising. 

The way the government protects themselves in regards to the repayment calculations based on total income with spouse, and any objection (legal or not) is to simply say "Well, if you are not going to provide your spouse's income details then we will not provide you with any service and off to default you go." 

Human rights in the country mean nothing to government. You have no rights is pretty much what it says, thanks to the crazy judicial system and those who exploit it for economic gain and to restrict and take control over another. 
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Johnny,

I see your point, and I agree that they can not force her to pay based on her husbands income.  However, qualifying for income dependant relief programs despite hiding behind a spouses high income, seems very wrong to me. Next your going to argue that she can qualify for social services because her personal income is very low.  No, the program is designed to relieve people with reduced or no income.  The OP doesn't qualify because she has an implied income and implied assets as a spouse of a gainfully earning spouse.
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Its very unfair that she gets to live in relative luxury at the expense of hubby, while the rest of the single students are struggling to pay their debts, yet still argue that she qualifies for income relief.
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If she were to apply for social services that would be wrong. This is not about other programs dude. This is about ONE specific argument, and that is should the government (Canada Student Loans Program) be able to punish a student loan borrower if the borrower's spouse doers not want to disclose his or her personal information that could cause hardship or economic burden. People have legal rights and you are taking this WAY to personally. 

If you believe that the CSLP should be able to punish people because of wanting to exercise a legal right and not feel threatened by a powerful system, then you and the system are one in the same.  If you are "angry" because you didn't have it so good, and what Jane describes irks you, them simply say that is the case. But that does not have anything to do with the argument here. 

Cheating on tax issues is an offense. If caught, people deserve what they get for doing so. Same for fraudulent social assistance collection. No one has the LEGAL RIGHT or any right of way to do these things. 

But does the government of Canada have the right to punish someone whose spouse does not want to disclose his or her personal information? Their response to this question is exactly as I stated before and that is "We do not have to help you if your spouse will not give his or her personal information that we require to calculate a repayment plan." 

So, the borrower, who is unable to pay on his or her own suffers, and so does the spouse because the government has made it so that the spouse has no choice but to waive his or her legal right to privacy and non-disclosure to an organization that has nothing to do with him - other than the fact that they are threatening harmful repercussions on his or her loved one. 

 
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I have to work, that's my reality.  And working outside of the home means I have to produce.  It does seem like I hide behind him, but we are in a common law relationship.  He just "upgraded" his truck.  I have a very old car 14 years old.   This is about me, not him.  Women work, do housework, all without having financial help from the spouse.  She earns her own money.  Sometimes couples share it all, some don't.  

I see Royal's point, and its a pain to see his point.  I remember being alone having no money, but watching my other women friends with good spouses who made good money, well, I didn't know why she would even complain about how she was making credit card payments.  The way hubby considers it, I am on my own.  Maybe that's financial abuse of him, I don't know.  But why can't I work and pay it on my own and contribute to the household.  No matter how thin you make the pancake it always has two sides.

This whole social thing is a mess.  His buddy called me a gold digger, I almost hung his buddy up by his neck.  He doesn't talk to that buddy anymore, thank god, he wanted to save the guy's life probably.  

He does not want to disclose his personal information, he does not want to disclose it.  They can punish me all they want to with this, and wouldn't I be breaking the law by giving it to them without his permission, that is if I had access to it, which I don't.  They just called here this morning and that first payment is not due till the 30th, but they are calling here already, wanting this information.  

I can see Royal's point, but I really am having a hard time, and don't know how I'm going to make payment.  

Just a short time after we got together, the bottom fell out for me.   Career in the toilet, I never would have said that even a year ago.  So I got together with him to pay my bills?  God, if a man did that to me, I don't think I would want to take care of him.  I would be making a run for it.  

But Johnny I know those income statements everyone gets while working have lots of numbers and other stuff on them.  Personal information.  And they are forcing it out of him, or I suffer.  
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Forcing her spouse to disclose income?  No, definitely not acceptable.  Forcing him to pay her debt.  No, definitely not acceptable.  

Expecting to benefit from income relief programs when you have your primary living expenses(room and board) paid for by someone else?  Also, not acceptable.

I don't think there is any ill intent from the NSLSC on this issue.  This is a tough situation.  On one hand, the spouse shouldn't be held accountable for her debt; on the other hand, why should she benefit from income relief when she has all her living expenses paid for, in the meantime many former students can't even pay their basic living expenses.

Jane, I am sorry, but the only right thing to do here is to get a part-time job.  Otherwise, accept the fact that you're going into default.  Marriage is a funny thing that immediately gets you into a potential financial mess, and I don't know the law in this case of a common law relationship.  To what extent is the home you're living in a marital asset, and can the government sue you and seize your share of that asset?  I am not saying this is right, but there is a lot about the system that isn't right, and you need to protect yourself.







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By the way, Jane, have you filed your recent tax returns?  Given your low income, you may qualify for several benefits (HST, Trilliums, working income tax benefit), during the period before you were legally defined as common law partners.  
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Royal, you wrote: 

"Expecting to benefit from income relief programs when you have your primary living expenses(room and board) paid for by someone else?  Also, not acceptable." 

... so you do feel that the government should punish Jane then for her common law spouse exercising his legal right. 

If Jane is not benefiting from the education in any way then that should be addressed. If there is no value or benefit then this si a good position to take. 
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Originally posted by Johnny Johnny wrote:

\
If Jane is not benefiting from the education in any way then that should be addressed. If there is no value or benefit then this si a good position to take. 

That is a completely different issue and is no way relevant to whether or not she can afford to pay her debt.  To what extent any of us should repay our educational debt if we aren't benefiting from our education, is a big question mark, however I think each and every one of us is at least partially responsible for our chosen career path whether or not we later benefit from it.

As for the real issue of whether or not she should qualify for income relief, I don't think so.  This is highly unfair to other less wealthy former students who are TRULY struggling.  None of us should be able to avoid our debt by marrying a gainfully earning spouse while choosing to live at home without seeking some kind of employment.  

For example: 

A 25 year old woman marries a gainfully earning spouse, has a couple of children, puts her career on hold for a few years to care for the kids.  Should she benefit from income relief?  Yes, because she is truly working hard to care for those kids.  

Jane on the other hand has NO responsibilities other than a choice to do what should be her spouse's equal share of the workload at home.  Sorry, this isn't right.  There is no reason why she can't seek part-time employment to pay her debt.

Should she be able to argue that she isn't gaining from her education.  Perhaps.  However, this is an entirely different issue.


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