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administrator
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Joined: 25/January/2003 Posts: 1006 |
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Topic: everything is brokenPosted: 20/February/2008 at 8:55am |
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Yes, I think his cirumstances that allow him to pay off his loan so quickly are the exception... View some of the other posts on this site, like the guy who has diligently paid his loans, but just lost his job so will be defaulted because he's out of school more than five years and although he has no job, made too much money to qualify for interest relief... or people with medical conditions that have to choose between medical treatment and paying off the loan...
Also read the posts at http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/StudentLoanFairness/petitionsignatures.html to see what student loan debts have done to people ...and sign the online petition! |
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------------- Mark O'Meara |
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old hippy
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Joined: 20/August/2005 Location: Canada Posts: 177 |
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Posted: 19/February/2008 at 3:40pm |
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Your education paid off, you have a career and more than 10-15 years left before you retire...
Your approach to paying your student loans is commendable. And for you it's possible. You must know that for many student loan borrowers it isn't. The scenarios are all here on this site..
I like to give everything the benefit of the doubt, but as far as this student loan system goes - I believe they have intentionally boxed in students by any means possible to make as much money as they can, with little regard for anything else. I don't like submitting to that.
Postponing marriage to be eligible for interest relief or debt reduction is entirely understandable. It makes sense. If they want to be with the one they love they'll just need to think outside the box, that's all...
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paulaffleck
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Joined: 26/September/2007 Location: Canada Posts: 142 |
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Posted: 18/February/2008 at 6:48pm |
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Thanks for your reply. I want to clear up a few things that your respose highlighted for me.
I don't embrace the entire student loan system. In fact, I don't embrace any "system," entirely. Many aspects of it urgently need repair. Certainly, it lacks long-term vision: People can not be expected to function ideally while living under a cloud of seemingly never-ending debt, and the intent of the student loan system cannot be to drive those people into uncurable indebtedness.
But student debtors nevertheless now live with its economic, and resulting, social consequences. The social consequences are severe, but have to be acknowledged and overcome, not simply ignored. To live happily as a lower-middle class citizen whose education was publically financed means delaying significant life decisions for a significant period of time. It is a laudable social program that has strayed off-course, and finds itself adrift in an ocean of unintended financial ruin. It is a social maelstrom. And I submit that this is a shameful social failure.
My point is to ask: Is this a consequence of a publically funded education system with which we are prepared to live? I don't think it is.
(It may also surprise you to learn that not all lawyers, especially young criminal defence lawyers, are swimming in cash!)
-Paul
It's not that I embrace the entire student loan system, but I don't embrace the current student loan system, but I do , but... I would say it's a stretch to say I embrace the student loan system. The folks at ARO inc. with whom I dealt with previously may beg to differ.
And of course, you can't necessarily paint all lawyers with one broad brush-stroke, when you're considering their incomes.
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old hippy
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Posted: 18/February/2008 at 11:53am |
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Mark, you're absolutely right about marriage affecting IR and DRR eligibility. My partner never has any money anyways, and conveniently disappears from time to time. But for young couples with children, it must be extremely frustrating when only that little bit of extra income pushes them over the eligibility limit. That's not really their fault for getting married and having children is it?
Paul, you appear to be a shining example for successful loan repayment after adopting a lifestyle of self-sacrifice. Yes, I've read your posts. And that's cool for you...I'm sure we all dream of paying off our loans but we're not all of us lawyers. With your success you seem to be embracing the current student loan system - maybe that works for you but not for me and probably not for those married student loan borrowers with children.
Happy Family Day!
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paulaffleck
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Joined: 26/September/2007 Location: Canada Posts: 142 |
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Posted: 17/February/2008 at 2:43pm |
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This is a better way of making the point. And of course, it's hardly my point, but one experienced by anybody in any long-term relationship.
I am all for the romantic notion of struggling together and making it against the odds. However, I think that budgeting appropriately and having similar long-term goals are even more important. Too bad they aren't seen as being as "sexy" and "romantic" as the struggling part. cheers, Paul |
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administrator
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Posted: 17/February/2008 at 12:19pm |
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I tend to agree with Paul... But I dont think he was implying that money can buy a relationship..
Since most couples fight the most over money, financial health (agreeing on what to and what not to spend on) is so important. Clearly student loans bring what we would call financial baggage into the relationship - and it appears that if you get married, it can affect your ability to get interest relief... Its not about how much money you have but agreeing on what you will do with it and planning for the future.. Check out www.educationalpolicy.org/pdf/LoveUBrad.pdf And if you can be happy being single, then you have a much better chance of being successful in a relationship. "Marriage is like two people jumping into a swimming pool. At any given time someone has to hold onto the side." |
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paulaffleck
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Joined: 26/September/2007 Location: Canada Posts: 142 |
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Posted: 15/February/2008 at 10:31am |
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Actually, I'm not sorry that it's been my experience - quite the contrary. Life is good, and debt load is part of that. Learning to deal with it is hardly a bad thing.
Debt creates psychological pain, and life with pain is harder. Life with less pain is easier. -Paul |
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old hippy
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Posted: 10/January/2008 at 1:54pm |
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I'm sorry if that has been your experience Paul, but I can't believe that all student loan borrowers are destined to be alone, unloved and only available for short term relationships until they clear up their debts. That just sounds like another horrible collections technique.
I'm in a long-term relationship with someone who helped me carry my bags home from the food bank and had some amazing recipes to share. Some people are easier to share poverty with than others I guess. Although $65,000 in debt - I have a little depressive moment from time to time, but I'm still reasonably happy as I won't allow a broken student loan system/bank/government to control my life and certainly not to the extent where I'd plan a relationship around them.
I've seen many, many long-term relationships fall apart especially after achieving financial health and beginning a family, and then there's child support and alimony payments to replace the student loans.
Feel free to rant all you like boopei. On the upside - you're only 26, and you've found someone you want to "spend the rest of your life with" - that doesn't sound like you "have nothing".
Hope things have improved for dujylyn, who originally began this thread...last I heard she had contacted Johnny.
I'm hoping for change...listening to old Beatles tunes and playing with the heart icons
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paulaffleck
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Posted: 09/January/2008 at 12:11pm |
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Who said money buys a relationship? That debt destroys one, is my point. I speak from experience - and it was my debt, not my partner's. Show me a household in constant debt, and I will show you two unhappy people. Show me two unhappy people and I will show you something doomed.
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old hippy
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Posted: 08/January/2008 at 4:24am |
Ouch! That leaves boopei looking for a man who has money. I can't agree that money (lack of debt) buys a long-term relationship. There must be an better way than dumping a debt-ridden partner.
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paulaffleck
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Posted: 07/January/2008 at 11:23am |
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Unfortunately, your choice of mate includes his financial burdens. The choice is hard, but simple. Either your love for him is stronger than your desire to avoid a prolonged period of financial struggle, or you end the relationship.
We're not being punished for being educated, we just owe a lot of money. The reality is that you can't have a long-term relationship without long-term financial health. The good news is, there's probably a person out there who is just as great and has his financial affairs in order. I don' t mean to be harsh, but isn't it better to confront it now, rather than having kids and being REALLY in financial trouble? |
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boopei
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Joined: 05/January/2008 Location: Canada Posts: 2 |
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Posted: 05/January/2008 at 5:21pm |
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I feel the pain of everyone dealing with student loans. After working 2 years in a job that was semi-related to my career, at 26 years old I met someone I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. What does this have to do with student loans???? Well, he's a teacher, with over $85,000 to pay back in loans, with his loan payments and car payment, it leaves him with about $200 a month for living expenses.
That's tons of money to rent an apartment, pay for utilities, etc, isn't it? oh, and did I mention that we're living with his parents, because right now, with my own student loans, and other bills (car, phone) etc, and being homesick (moved from PEI to NS), we can't AFFORD to do anything else. I have a unique situation in where I fought to get my student loans in the first place, only to get them the END of my first year of my course, after I had to start working full time to pay for living expenses. So of course, I had to pay the school, but because of missed time, because of $0 to pay for living expenses.. I had to start from scratch. I just feel very overwhelmed because we're getting on into our late 20's, where we'd love to settle down, and have a family. But, as I see it now, he's got 10-15 years to try to pay off his loans, and by that time, its going to be too late to have children. Nevermind the fact that I'd love to put the credits I have towards upgrading/changing my career so that I can get better pay, better benefits etc, instead of working in a call center trying to pay the bills, because there is nothing in my field. There's others in the same boat as me, and I don't know how you do it, at all. I find it very difficult to find the bright side of things, when you are paying enough money out /month to have a $400,000 home, but have nothing. Sorry for the rant, I'm just feeling.. hopeless. If there was a magic button to push to clear it all, I would, and would do it for so many others. It's a shame that it feels so much like we're being punished for being educated. |
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pretzel_logic
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Joined: 15/February/2005 Location: Canada Posts: 70 |
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Posted: 06/October/2005 at 5:30am |
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In the immortal words of a liberal backbencher: "Bill C-55 will help thousands of Canadians who must rely on a fair and effective insolvency system to deal with the situation of financial distress.[...] It is quite clear that this legislation is of interest to a very large number of Canadians. I am convinced that Bill C-55 deserves the full support of the House. I urge that the bill proceed expeditiously to the committee review stage." He said "pronto". And so it is written. And so it shall be referred to the commitee on Science Technology and all that stuff. Things are finally moving. Changes that concern us all to a degree are about to be implemented. For the record, in this case, it took seven years or so for a reversal of an unfair law and an admission of guilt by the legislator. Still, I'd be curious to know how many many lives were ruined or even lost to this sorry state of affairs regarding student financing over the years. We got a few illustrations of the depth of the mess on this forum. There are many stories that may never be told though , in the end. And if Provincial governments want to avoid a surge in student bankruptcy by clearing student debt right away with a portion of their budget surpluses (hello alberta) and looking good in the process - they are welcome to do so, of course. BC rules absolute now. Others should really follow the example it sets. Education of our citizens should really be free and accessible, as a matter of principle.
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old hippy
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Joined: 20/August/2005 Location: Canada Posts: 177 |
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Posted: 03/October/2005 at 3:04pm |
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Rock on....
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dujylyn
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Posted: 03/October/2005 at 9:31am |
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Hi everyone, All of your comments and support are much appreciated. even you, little basher. I learned the art of basket weaving many years before entering university, so majoring in that would have been redundant. enough said, don't wanna risk re-inforcing your behavior.
Johnny, thanks for clarifying your services and fees. I have considered becoming a client but did not know how I could afford it. It is good to know that there is some flexibility in this regard next time i feel like everything is broken. For the moment, simply posting about how i was feeling with people who understand has been helpful to my state of mind. It's amazing how breaking the silence about our fear and yes, shame, can empower us. I guess i was feeling physically threatened by all this...thanks for turning the light on. Old Hippy, glad you are in a good space. Maybe, discovering this site will help you to avoid some of the pitfalls. by the way, i have found that tye-dying stuff is an excellent stress release. my place is beginning to look like a dead head convention was held here, but what the hay, it's bright and cheery....might have to include dye on my next expense sheet. |
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if you cannot be a good example, you will just have to be a horrible warning
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pretzel_logic
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Joined: 15/February/2005 Location: Canada Posts: 70 |
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Posted: 03/October/2005 at 5:35am |
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Of course, it's my fault. It could have been avoided, had I possessed more maturity and enjoyed better guidance at the time of my studies. But if this was a regular penitentiary, I'd be out by now. Hell, I'd be even pardoned by now, for far more serious crimes. And you know it. More Bill C-55 blatter set for today in the House Of Commons. Most in there agree the changes are a good thing, from what I could tell. And they do take their time to let us know how they feel about it. But as long as they don't turn around and vote against it at the last minute, this should be a done thing by early 2006. Then for me, it will have been eight years of that needless cheese and macaroni limbo business... |
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administrator
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Posted: 02/October/2005 at 5:05am |
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According to basher13's birth date, he/she is too young to have a student loan, let alone be out of high school... or even vote...
Writing style reminds me of someone we all know... Mark |
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polyhymnia61
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Joined: 10/January/2003 Location: Netherlands Posts: 915 |
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Posted: 02/October/2005 at 1:24am |
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That's how he gets his rocks off, oldhippy, trying to start something. Notice nobody's paying attention anymore. Glad you're in a good place...Take care! Poly |
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Home is where you are allowed to prosper.
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old hippy
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Posted: 30/September/2005 at 9:30pm |
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I’m in a fairly good space right now, but then I haven’t had any bad experiences with the system yet as far as repaying my student loan goes. But I do recall the stress, worry and sleepless nights that I experienced while I was still a student, living on that “mountain of cash” that amounted to about 12K a year. That must be below the poverty line or close to it but is still twice as much as general welfare assistance. After the school took their tuition fees off the top, before that money ever crossed my palm, there wasn’t a great deal remaining. Most of it went on the rent and sometimes there wasn’t enough for that and groceries, and then it became a toss up – do I eat or keep a roof over my head? I worked student jobs to supplement the student loan. The work study student jobs were the only jobs that I could find. Or I would have left the school…….which became my sanctuary. So far, things have not been as bad as I had imagined them regarding the student loan. I have been taking things one step at a time. First, I signed the loan papers to “consolidate” my loans. That’s not something that I wanted to do, but it’s done. Then I was able to apply for Interest Relief. I’ve been struggling with unemployment and low paying jobs for years. My peer group are the ones who have been hanging on to their jobs for the past 20 years. There were many jobs for the taking 20 years ago and you didn’t need to have a university degree. I was too much of a free and restless spirit. Refused to sell out to the money god. No, I don’t regret that. To each his own. But I don’t think I need to be punished for that, and sometimes that’s what it feels like. My fears began to ease when I came to this site and read posts like yours dujylyn. Not because I’m thinking – oh, there’s someone who’s worse off than I am. But because I had thought I was this ridiculous, bad person who had run up an incredibly large student loan and would be cast from society. But now I realize that there’s lots of us!!! I’m going to be getting a little edgy when I start applying for this debt reduction thing. I guess that’s not an option for you dujylyn? I think I would probably seek help from Johnny if the worst came to the worst. He seems to be well-respected on this site. I don’t think I could handle collectors intruding into my world and hope it doesn’t come to that. And as for you Basher13….You have serious issues. Apparently everything that Poly and Mark had to say to you went in one ear and out the other. Old Hippy
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Johnny
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Posted: 29/September/2005 at 7:23pm |
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Just to let you and everyone else know ... Many service packages we offer carry flexible payment options. So, you do not have to pay the fees all up front. Also, we can provide service to you no matter where you live in the world. That is one of the conveniences - next to low costs. You do not have to leave your home or office to get help. It is VERY convenient. If people require counseling without intervention, packages are available. If people require serious intervention to solve critical problems, we provide that as well. A new forum has been built for people who suffer from consumer and retail debt crisis www.cfwgroup.ca/consumerforum. All forums are free to join and post. This forum covers a wide variety of consumer and retail debt issues, and even tax debt crisis issues. It is a one-stop shop. There are also general workshop/forums for people who are trying to rebuild credit, and for those who are "fist-timers" looking to build a strong financial foundation and platform that will provide future strength and success. These are just a couple of wellness projects happening on the site. If you/anyone requires help and wants to become a client and/or member, feel free to call toll free 866-239-7889. Johnny
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